[Dhis2-devs] DHIS 2 Live

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola

···

Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech support.

Regards,

Jason

···

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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Thanks

It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high… Will have to look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and also into the offline data entry in 2.4.

As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2 sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the amount of support required quite a lot.

Olav

···

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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I agree with Bob that it is worth trying going with H2, as it does simplify things considerably. It also provides a possibility for db backup (and transmission) through the copying (and sending) of the whole db file (though a monthly zipped incremental DXF export should be smaller).

Knut

···

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks

It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high… Will have to look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and also into the offline data entry in 2.4.

As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2 sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the amount of support required quite a lot.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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Cheers,
Knut Staring

Thanks, I will at least try to see how the default H2 performs.

Olav

···

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:50 skrev Knut Staring:

I agree with Bob that it is worth trying going with H2, as it does simplify things considerably. It also provides a possibility for db backup (and transmission) through the copying (and sending) of the whole db file (though a monthly zipped incremental DXF export should be smaller).

Knut

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks

It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high… Will have to look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and also into the offline data entry in 2.4.

As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2 sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the amount of support required quite a lot.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University
of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps
link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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Cheers,
Knut Staring

We have also created an H2 installer, which is considerably easier than the Postgres installer. This would allow you to install this on a users machine, with the documentation and a pre-populated H2 database, which may be something to consider. Let me know if this would fit your deployment plans, and we can discuss more details.

Regards,

Jason

···

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks, I will at least try to see how the default H2 performs.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:50 skrev Knut Staring:

I agree with Bob that it is worth trying going with H2, as it does simplify things considerably. It also provides a possibility for db backup (and transmission) through the copying (and sending) of the whole db file (though a monthly zipped incremental DXF export should be smaller).

Knut

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks

It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high… Will have to look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and also into the offline data entry in 2.4.

As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2 sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the amount of support required quite a lot.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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Cheers,
Knut Staring

Thanks
It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high... Will have to
look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and
also into the offline data entry in 2.4.
As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2
sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the
amount of support required quite a lot.

Simple answer is no one has tried it yet in such a production setting.
And as Ola points out, you really want to avoid offline as much as
possible as it creates an exponential maintenance headache - both in
terms of keeping hardware and software running, but also keeping
metadata in synch.

Where you must be offline because you are indeed seriously offline
then the less software you have to maintain the better.

BUT, metadata maintenance will still be a human/policy/HR problem
regardless of the underlying db stack and is likely to be your biggest
headache. The most draconian approach would be to to provide
districts with metadata (or even a metadata populated starter db file)
and require that they don't alter anything other than add data. We
don't currently have a way to enforce this metadata ownership concern
through the software and in fact it becomes less of a concern as
things become more centralized.

Slightly less draconian being that they can add metadata but not alter
or remove state provided metadata. When this happens, then the
exports to state level will be troubled as many districts will be
expected to be using the same dataelements, categories, datasets etc.

I wonder about the merits of a stripping out the metadata maintenance
modules in a such a lite-lite install? Not sure how crippling this
would be. Metadata import being the only way to update metadata.
Maybe that's too draconian but it could work for ultra-offline data
entry.

Bob

···

On 18 August 2011 14:40, Olav Poppe <olav.poppe@gmail.com> wrote:

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.
We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with
Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about
a "supervised" install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users
machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense
development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server
is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a
true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.
I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If
you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech
support.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad <olati@ifi.uio.no> > wrote:

Olav,
How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile
usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I
would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go
completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in
Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the
districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a
major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation
guide here:
http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html
And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation
guide slides here:
http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip
Ola
-------

----------------------------------
Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@gmail.com> >> wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In
theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has
occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.
We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to
you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be
something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the
DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe <olav.poppe@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,
we're looking at what do to with offline installations for the
implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live?
Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should
postgres be set up as well?
There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be
offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.
Thanks,
Olav
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What would be the main benefits of this versus just using the H2 database in DHIS live, except the documentation?

···

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 14:12 skrev Jason Pickering:

We have also created an H2 installer, which is considerably easier than the Postgres installer. This would allow you to install this on a users machine, with the documentation and a pre-populated H2 database, which may be something to consider. Let me know if this would fit your deployment plans, and we can discuss more details.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks, I will at least try to see how the default H2 performs.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:50 skrev Knut Staring:

I agree with Bob that it is worth trying going with H2, as it does simplify things considerably. It also provides a possibility for db backup (and transmission) through the copying (and sending) of the whole db file (though a monthly zipped incremental DXF export should be smaller).

Knut

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks

It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high… Will have to look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and also into the offline data entry in 2.4.

As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2 sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the amount of support required quite a lot.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University
of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps
link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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Cheers,
Knut Staring

I guess this can be an interesting experiment then! Will do some testing with the live package to see how it performs with the current (meta)data at least.

···

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 14:25 skrev Bob Jolliffe:

On 18 August 2011 14:40, Olav Poppe <olav.poppe@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks
It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high... Will have to
look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and
also into the offline data entry in 2.4.
As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2
sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the
amount of support required quite a lot.

Simple answer is no one has tried it yet in such a production setting.
And as Ola points out, you really want to avoid offline as much as
possible as it creates an exponential maintenance headache - both in
terms of keeping hardware and software running, but also keeping
metadata in synch.

Where you must be offline because you are indeed seriously offline
then the less software you have to maintain the better.

BUT, metadata maintenance will still be a human/policy/HR problem
regardless of the underlying db stack and is likely to be your biggest
headache. The most draconian approach would be to to provide
districts with metadata (or even a metadata populated starter db file)
and require that they don't alter anything other than add data. We
don't currently have a way to enforce this metadata ownership concern
through the software and in fact it becomes less of a concern as
things become more centralized.

Slightly less draconian being that they can add metadata but not alter
or remove state provided metadata. When this happens, then the
exports to state level will be troubled as many districts will be
expected to be using the same dataelements, categories, datasets etc.

I wonder about the merits of a stripping out the metadata maintenance
modules in a such a lite-lite install? Not sure how crippling this
would be. Metadata import being the only way to update metadata.
Maybe that's too draconian but it could work for ultra-offline data
entry.

Bob

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.
We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with
Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about
a "supervised" install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users
machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense
development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server
is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a
true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.
I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If
you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech
support.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad <olati@ifi.uio.no> >> wrote:

Olav,
How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile
usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I
would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go
completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in
Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the
districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a
major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation
guide here:
http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html
And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation
guide slides here:
http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip
Ola
-------

----------------------------------
Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@gmail.com> >>> wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In
theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has
occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.
We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to
you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be
something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the
DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe <olav.poppe@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,
we're looking at what do to with offline installations for the
implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live?
Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should
postgres be set up as well?
There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be
offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.
Thanks,
Olav
_______________________________________________
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Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
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_______________________________________________
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Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
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_______________________________________________
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The main benefit of an installer for us was

  1. A pre-packaged database (straight DXF transmission will not carry everything you need for a complete reserialization from a master database)

  2. Proper shortcut links to make DHIS2 “look” like a piece of software users are used to dealing with

  3. Installation of Java when required (important!)

  4. As Bob hints at, it may be required in the “draconian” situation to ship DHIS2 with fewer features, although I am sure these could be relatively easily circumvented by savvy users! We have tinkered with an extremely stripped down version of DHIS2 in Nigeria which only does data entry, data export, and nothing else built through a custom pom specifically for another use case, but the issue is well worth considering.

Several versions of the installer are present in the DHIS2 /installers directory of the main source tree. You can probably trawl through the archives of the list as well for more info/debates on the utility of a native installer. Let me know if you need some help to get things running if you are interested in pursuing the installer route.

Best regards,

Jason

···

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

What would be the main benefits of this versus just using the H2 database in DHIS live, except the documentation?

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 14:12 skrev Jason Pickering:

We have also created an H2 installer, which is considerably easier than the Postgres installer. This would allow you to install this on a users machine, with the documentation and a pre-populated H2 database, which may be something to consider. Let me know if this would fit your deployment plans, and we can discuss more details.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks, I will at least try to see how the default H2 performs.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:50 skrev Knut Staring:

I agree with Bob that it is worth trying going with H2, as it does simplify things considerably. It also provides a possibility for db backup (and transmission) through the copying (and sending) of the whole db file (though a monthly zipped incremental DXF export should be smaller).

Knut

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks

It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high… Will have to look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and also into the offline data entry in 2.4.

As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2 sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the amount of support required quite a lot.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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Cheers,
Knut Staring

I see, thanks, will definitely keep it in mind as we work on this.

···

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 14:52 skrev Jason Pickering:

The main benefit of an installer for us was

  1. A pre-packaged database (straight DXF transmission will not carry everything you need for a complete reserialization from a master database)
  1. Proper shortcut links to make DHIS2 “look” like a piece of software users are used to dealing with
  1. Installation of Java when required (important!)
  1. As Bob hints at, it may be required in the “draconian” situation to ship DHIS2 with fewer features, although I am sure these could be relatively easily circumvented by savvy users! We have tinkered with an extremely stripped down version of DHIS2 in Nigeria which only does data entry, data export, and nothing else built through a custom pom specifically for another use case, but the issue is well worth considering.

Several versions of the installer are present in the DHIS2 /installers directory of the main source tree. You can probably trawl through the archives of the list as well for more info/debates on the utility of a native installer. Let me know if you need some help to get things running if you are interested in pursuing the installer route.

Best regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

What would be the main benefits of this versus just using the H2 database in DHIS live, except the documentation?

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 14:12 skrev Jason Pickering:

We have also created an H2 installer, which is considerably easier than the Postgres installer. This would allow you to install this on a users machine, with the documentation and a pre-populated H2 database, which may be something to consider. Let me know if this would fit your deployment plans, and we can discuss more details.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks, I will at least try to see how the default H2 performs.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:50 skrev Knut Staring:

I agree with Bob that it is worth trying going with H2, as it does simplify things considerably. It also provides a possibility for db backup (and transmission) through the copying (and sending) of the whole db file (though a monthly zipped incremental DXF export should be smaller).

Knut

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks

It seems the barrier for going offline should be quite high… Will have to look more into exactly how bad the connections are in the worse areas, and also into the offline data entry in 2.4.

As for those districts that are in fact offline, is the live package with H2 sufficient? Keeping postgres out of the picture would likely reduce the amount of support required quite a lot.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University
of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps
link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live? Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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Cheers,
Knut Staring

I wonder about the merits of a stripping out the metadata maintenance

modules in a such a lite-lite install? Not sure how crippling this

would be. Metadata import being the only way to update metadata.

Maybe that’s too draconian but it could work for ultra-offline data

entry.

I would recommend being quite draconian and pretty much disable the whole Maintenance menu and quite a bit of the services menu as well. And then train them really well on the remaining parts, and creating a targeted, short and simple manual (ideally accompanied by some video clips) so that support can be kept to a minimum (or at worst done over the phone).

The emphasis on eliminating moving parts and sources of error of course also harks back to you “DHIS appliance” idea, Bob. One could even think of running DHIS Live with H2 off USB sticks (though they are flimsy), which could even be made to boot up something like DamnedSmallLinux.

Knut

···

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com wrote:

On 18 August 2011 14:40, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Bob

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with

Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat about

a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on users

machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under intense

development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single server

is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is a

true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first. If

you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of tech

support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no > > > wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through mobile

usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment that I

would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go

completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well in

Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4, the

districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which is a

major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the implementation

guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with implementation

guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)

HISP

Department of Informatics

University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736

Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com > > >> wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In

theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has

occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest to

you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might be

something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of the

DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,

we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the

implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS Live?

Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or should

postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be

offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

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Cheers,
Knut Staring

I wonder about the merits of a stripping out the metadata maintenance
modules in a such a lite-lite install? Not sure how crippling this
would be. Metadata import being the only way to update metadata.
Maybe that's too draconian but it could work for ultra-offline data
entry.

I would recommend being quite draconian and pretty much disable the whole
Maintenance menu and quite a bit of the services menu as well. And then
train them really well on the remaining parts, and creating a targeted,
short and simple manual (ideally accompanied by some video clips) so that
support can be kept to a minimum (or at worst done over the phone).

And I thought I was the draconian one :slight_smile: Still if its only a matter
of removing some modules from a custom pom it could be worth looking
at. Olav maybe you want to try and see how it looks.

The emphasis on eliminating moving parts and sources of error of course also
harks back to you "DHIS appliance" idea, Bob. One could even think of
running DHIS Live with H2 off USB sticks (though they are flimsy), which
could even be made to boot up something like DamnedSmallLinux.

I'm not too convinced by the usb stick idea. Not that its not doable.
And I think its probably great for demos (WHO-on-a-stick) but in
real-life I don't think these sticks are well suited for database
read-writes.

One of the issues people do tend to have with h2 is a lack of
supporting tools to diagnose when things go wrong. And I'd hate to be
on the phone to someone stepping through openoffice+jdbc setup or the
like. If I were to ship h2 into the darkness of many remote districts
I think I would write a couple of really simple and small diagnostic
tools to test the integrity and health of the database and ship that
too. Just the "where there is no doctor" common sorts of faults.
Then when I get the call "help! my dhis2-ultra-lite doesn't work",
I'd ask them to run the diagnostic tool and read out the diagnosis
over the phone to quickly figure out if the h2 file is corrupted, or
metadata is misconfigured or what have you. Planning for 170 offline
installs (or some reasonable proportion of that number) is no picnic.
The more work up front to make those calls easier the better.

Cheers
Bob

···

On 18 August 2011 16:14, Knut Staring <knutst@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@gmail.com> wrote:

On 18 August 2011 14:40, Olav Poppe <olav.poppe@gmail.com> wrote:

Knut

Bob

> Olav
>
> Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:
>
> I agree with both Bob and Ola.
> We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with
> Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat
> about
> a "supervised" install. There are a lot of things which can happen on
> users
> machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under
> intense
> development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single
> server
> is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is
> a
> true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.
> I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first.
> If
> you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of
> tech
> support.
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad <olati@ifi.uio.no> >> > wrote:
>>
>> Olav,
>> How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through
>> mobile
>> usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment
>> that I
>> would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go
>> completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well
>> in
>> Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4,
>> the
>> districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which
>> is a
>> major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.
>>
>> Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the
>> implementation
>> guide here:
>> http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html
>> And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with
>> implementation
>> guide slides here:
>> http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip
>> Ola
>> -------
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
>> HISP
>> Department of Informatics
>> University of Oslo
>>
>> Mobile: +47 48069736
>> Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link
>>
>>
>> On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@gmail.com> >> >> wrote:
>>>
>>> One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In
>>> theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has
>>> occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.
>>> We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest
>>> to
>>> you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might
>>> be
>>> something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of
>>> the
>>> DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe <olav.poppe@gmail.com> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> we're looking at what do to with offline installations for the
>>>> implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS
>>>> Live?
>>>> Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or
>>>> should
>>>> postgres be set up as well?
>>>> There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be
>>>> offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Olav
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
>>>> Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
>>> Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>

_______________________________________________
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--
Cheers,
Knut Staring

I wonder about the merits of a stripping out the metadata maintenance

modules in a such a lite-lite install? Not sure how crippling this

would be. Metadata import being the only way to update metadata.

Maybe that’s too draconian but it could work for ultra-offline data

entry.

I would recommend being quite draconian and pretty much disable the whole

Maintenance menu and quite a bit of the services menu as well. And then

train them really well on the remaining parts, and creating a targeted,

short and simple manual (ideally accompanied by some video clips) so that

support can be kept to a minimum (or at worst done over the phone).

And I thought I was the draconian one :slight_smile: Still if its only a matter

of removing some modules from a custom pom it could be worth looking

at. Olav maybe you want to try and see how it looks.

This is very easy to do, and should even make the application more lightweight for weaker hardware (do you know anything about the HW, Olav?), but must of course be thought through and tested so that vital functionality is not left out - and also not possible to “restore” (by changing user access rights).

The emphasis on eliminating moving parts and sources of error of course also

harks back to you “DHIS appliance” idea, Bob. One could even think of

running DHIS Live with H2 off USB sticks (though they are flimsy), which

could even be made to boot up something like DamnedSmallLinux.

I’m not too convinced by the usb stick idea. Not that its not doable.

And I think its probably great for demos (WHO-on-a-stick) but in

real-life I don’t think these sticks are well suited for database

read-writes.

I do agree with this, and not really recommending it - should perhaps even not have mentioned it as a possibility. The great advantage of Linux (probably installed on a hard drive) is that it’s less prone to virii (usually propagated by USB sticks in such an unconnected environment). If that is not feasible, perhaps the machines should dual boot: A stripped down Linux partition for DHIS2, Windows for everything else they are doing (mostly Word and Excel, perhaps?)

One of the issues people do tend to have with h2 is a lack of

supporting tools to diagnose when things go wrong. And I’d hate to be

on the phone to someone stepping through openoffice+jdbc setup or the

like. If I were to ship h2 into the darkness of many remote districts

I think I would write a couple of really simple and small diagnostic

tools to test the integrity and health of the database and ship that

too. Just the “where there is no doctor” common sorts of faults.

Then when I get the call “help! my dhis2-ultra-lite doesn’t work”,

I’d ask them to run the diagnostic tool and read out the diagnosis

over the phone to quickly figure out if the h2 file is corrupted, or

metadata is misconfigured or what have you. Planning for 170 offline

installs (or some reasonable proportion of that number) is no picnic.

The more work up front to make those calls easier the better.

Indeed - the lack of tool support counts against H2 - though the tools available for Postgres may also require extensive training to be used by anyone. So I agree very much with any kind of super simple administrative support that could be made readily available - no matter the choice of db.

Knut

···

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com wrote:

On 18 August 2011 16:14, Knut Staring knutst@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com wrote:

On 18 August 2011 14:40, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Cheers

Bob

Knut

Bob

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with

Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat

about

a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on

users

machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under

intense

development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single

server

is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is

a

true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first.

If

you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of

tech

support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no > > >> > wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through

mobile

usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment

that I

would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go

completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well

in

Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4,

the

districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which

is a

major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the

implementation

guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with

implementation

guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)

HISP

Department of Informatics

University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736

Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com > > >> >> wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In

theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has

occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest

to

you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might

be

something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of

the

DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com > > >> >>> wrote:

Hello,

we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the

implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS

Live?

Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or

should

postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be

offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

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Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

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Cheers,

Knut Staring


Cheers,
Knut Staring

Dear Lars,

Thanks for the new release. Please note the following important things:

The Pivot tables should have an automatic pane to export data to excel as most of our staff are very conversant on use of spreadsheets.

The reports should also if Iam selecting Monthly give you options of selecting from which month to what month. How about generating reports by facility ownership? Its important as we try to make sure that the country use one system and Faith based Health services would only want to generate data by their facilities (CHAK, KEC and Supkem). It will also get information on their contribution same with Government and private.

regards

PEPELA WANJALA

MINISTRY OF HEALTH HEADQUARTERS

HEALTH INFORMATION SYSTEM

AFYA HOUSE, HIS LG 37

P.O BOX 30016, NAIROBI, KENYA

TEL: +254 (020) 2717077 EXT 45097

CELL: +254 (0) 722375633 or 0202033363

EMAIL: wanjala2p@yahoo.com

** hmis@health.go.ke**

···

From: Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com
To: Knut Staring knutst@gmail.com
Cc: dhis2-users@lists.launchpad.net; dhis2-devs dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net; Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS 2 Live

On 18 August 2011 16:14, Knut Staring knutst@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com wrote:

On 18 August 2011 14:40, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:
I wonder about the merits of a stripping out the metadata maintenance
modules in a such a lite-lite install? Not sure how crippling this
would be. Metadata import being the only way to update metadata.
Maybe that’s too draconian but it could work for ultra-offline data
entry.

I would recommend being quite draconian and pretty much disable the whole
Maintenance menu and quite a bit of the services menu as well. And then
train them really well on the remaining parts, and creating a targeted,
short and simple manual (ideally accompanied by some video clips) so that
support can be kept to a minimum (or at worst done over the phone).

And I thought I was the draconian one :slight_smile: Still if its only a matter
of removing some modules from a custom pom it could be worth looking
at. Olav maybe you want to try and see how it looks.

The emphasis on eliminating moving parts and sources of error of course also
harks back to you “DHIS appliance” idea, Bob. One could even think of
running DHIS Live with H2 off USB sticks (though they are flimsy), which
could even be made to boot up something like DamnedSmallLinux.

I’m not too convinced by the usb stick idea. Not that its not doable.
And I think its probably great for demos (WHO-on-a-stick) but in
real-life I don’t think these sticks are well suited for database
read-writes.

One of the issues people do tend to have with h2 is a lack of
supporting tools to diagnose when things go wrong. And I’d hate to be
on the phone to someone stepping through openoffice+jdbc setup or the
like. If I were to ship h2 into the darkness of many remote districts
I think I would write a couple of really simple and small diagnostic
tools to test the integrity and health of the database and ship that
too. Just the “where there is no doctor” common sorts of faults.
Then when I get the call “help! my dhis2-ultra-lite doesn’t work”,
I’d ask them to run the diagnostic tool and read out the diagnosis
over the phone to quickly figure out if the h2 file is corrupted, or
metadata is misconfigured or what have you. Planning for 170 offline
installs (or some reasonable proportion of that number) is no picnic.
The more work up front to make those calls easier the better.

Cheers
Bob

Knut

Bob

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.
We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with
Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat
about
a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on
users
machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under
intense
development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single
server
is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is
a
true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.
I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first.
If
you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of
tech
support.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no >> > wrote:

Olav,
How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through
mobile
usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment
that I
would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go
completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well
in
Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4,
the
districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which
is a
major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the
implementation
guide here:
http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html
And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with
implementation
guide slides here:
http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip
Ola


Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com >> >> wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In
theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has
occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.
We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest
to
you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might
be
something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of
the
DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com >> >>> wrote:

Hello,
we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the
implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS
Live?
Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or
should
postgres be set up as well?
There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be
offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.
Thanks,
Olav


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
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Cheers,
Knut Staring


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Yes, sounds like disabling some modules might be something to consider. We're waiting for a document detailing the connectivity at various offices at the moment, hopefully that will give a better overview of how big issue this will be.

As for the HW, the only thing I know at the moment is that the machines (windows) running the current system will be used for DHIS 2 as well. So it will probably vary quite a bit from location to location.

Olav

···

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 15:34 skrev Bob Jolliffe:

On 18 August 2011 16:14, Knut Staring <knutst@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@gmail.com> wrote:

On 18 August 2011 14:40, Olav Poppe <olav.poppe@gmail.com> wrote:
I wonder about the merits of a stripping out the metadata maintenance
modules in a such a lite-lite install? Not sure how crippling this
would be. Metadata import being the only way to update metadata.
Maybe that's too draconian but it could work for ultra-offline data
entry.

I would recommend being quite draconian and pretty much disable the whole
Maintenance menu and quite a bit of the services menu as well. And then
train them really well on the remaining parts, and creating a targeted,
short and simple manual (ideally accompanied by some video clips) so that
support can be kept to a minimum (or at worst done over the phone).

And I thought I was the draconian one :slight_smile: Still if its only a matter
of removing some modules from a custom pom it could be worth looking
at. Olav maybe you want to try and see how it looks.

The emphasis on eliminating moving parts and sources of error of course also
harks back to you "DHIS appliance" idea, Bob. One could even think of
running DHIS Live with H2 off USB sticks (though they are flimsy), which
could even be made to boot up something like DamnedSmallLinux.

I'm not too convinced by the usb stick idea. Not that its not doable.
And I think its probably great for demos (WHO-on-a-stick) but in
real-life I don't think these sticks are well suited for database
read-writes.

One of the issues people do tend to have with h2 is a lack of
supporting tools to diagnose when things go wrong. And I'd hate to be
on the phone to someone stepping through openoffice+jdbc setup or the
like. If I were to ship h2 into the darkness of many remote districts
I think I would write a couple of really simple and small diagnostic
tools to test the integrity and health of the database and ship that
too. Just the "where there is no doctor" common sorts of faults.
Then when I get the call "help! my dhis2-ultra-lite doesn't work",
I'd ask them to run the diagnostic tool and read out the diagnosis
over the phone to quickly figure out if the h2 file is corrupted, or
metadata is misconfigured or what have you. Planning for 170 offline
installs (or some reasonable proportion of that number) is no picnic.
The more work up front to make those calls easier the better.

Cheers
Bob

Knut

Bob

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.
We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with
Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat
about
a "supervised" install. There are a lot of things which can happen on
users
machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under
intense
development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single
server
is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is
a
true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.
I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first.
If
you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of
tech
support.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad <olati@ifi.uio.no> >>>> wrote:

Olav,
How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through
mobile
usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment
that I
would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go
completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well
in
Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4,
the
districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which
is a
major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the
implementation
guide here:
http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html
And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with
implementation
guide slides here:
http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip
Ola
-------

----------------------------------
Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In
theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has
occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.
We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest
to
you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might
be
something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of
the
DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe <olav.poppe@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:

Hello,
we're looking at what do to with offline installations for the
implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS
Live?
Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or
should
postgres be set up as well?
There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be
offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.
Thanks,
Olav
_______________________________________________
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

_______________________________________________
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Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

_______________________________________________
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Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

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Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
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--
Cheers,
Knut Staring

Hi Olav,

A recommended setup for offline district offices (at least of some size) is to use a local network with 1 ubuntu server running DHIS 2 and multiple clients (mostly Windows), allowing users to share the same installation/database of DHIS. Often there are more than one DHIS user at the district office and this setup provide more flexibility and access to the data. Having the DHIS run on a virus-free ubuntu machine compared to a Windows machine makes a huge difference in terms of tech support needs and DHIS 2 up time. Of course setting up a local network requires some more initial tech work, but in the long run it is probably worth it.

This has been used in the offline deployment in Sierra Leone.

Ola

···

Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)
HISP

Department of Informatics
University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736
Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 19 August 2011 13:46, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

Yes, sounds like disabling some modules might be something to consider. We’re waiting for a document detailing the connectivity at various offices at the moment, hopefully that will give a better overview of how big issue this will be.

As for the HW, the only thing I know at the moment is that the machines (windows) running the current system will be used for DHIS 2 as well. So it will probably vary quite a bit from location to location.

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 15:34 skrev Bob Jolliffe:

On 18 August 2011 16:14, Knut Staring knutst@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com wrote:

On 18 August 2011 14:40, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com wrote:

I wonder about the merits of a stripping out the metadata maintenance

modules in a such a lite-lite install? Not sure how crippling this

would be. Metadata import being the only way to update metadata.

Maybe that’s too draconian but it could work for ultra-offline data

entry.

I would recommend being quite draconian and pretty much disable the whole

Maintenance menu and quite a bit of the services menu as well. And then

train them really well on the remaining parts, and creating a targeted,

short and simple manual (ideally accompanied by some video clips) so that

support can be kept to a minimum (or at worst done over the phone).

And I thought I was the draconian one :slight_smile: Still if its only a matter

of removing some modules from a custom pom it could be worth looking

at. Olav maybe you want to try and see how it looks.

The emphasis on eliminating moving parts and sources of error of course also

harks back to you “DHIS appliance” idea, Bob. One could even think of

running DHIS Live with H2 off USB sticks (though they are flimsy), which

could even be made to boot up something like DamnedSmallLinux.

I’m not too convinced by the usb stick idea. Not that its not doable.

And I think its probably great for demos (WHO-on-a-stick) but in

real-life I don’t think these sticks are well suited for database

read-writes.

One of the issues people do tend to have with h2 is a lack of

supporting tools to diagnose when things go wrong. And I’d hate to be

on the phone to someone stepping through openoffice+jdbc setup or the

like. If I were to ship h2 into the darkness of many remote districts

I think I would write a couple of really simple and small diagnostic

tools to test the integrity and health of the database and ship that

too. Just the “where there is no doctor” common sorts of faults.

Then when I get the call “help! my dhis2-ultra-lite doesn’t work”,

I’d ask them to run the diagnostic tool and read out the diagnosis

over the phone to quickly figure out if the h2 file is corrupted, or

metadata is misconfigured or what have you. Planning for 170 offline

installs (or some reasonable proportion of that number) is no picnic.

The more work up front to make those calls easier the better.

Cheers

Bob

Knut

Bob

Olav

Den 18. aug. 2011 kl. 13:32 skrev Jason Pickering:

I agree with both Bob and Ola.

We have tried not quite yet succeeded in getting DHIS2 installed with

Tomcat/Postgres on Windows with a one-click installer, this my caveat

about

a “supervised” install. There are a lot of things which can happen on

users

machines and maintenance becomes a huge issue. DHIS is still under

intense

development, and a lot of things change quickly. Upgrading a single

server

is a piece of cake. Upgrading dozens or hundreds of off-line machines is

a

true nightmare and a serious risk and resource drain to any deployment.

I agree with Ola. Totally exclude an on-line server as an option first.

If

you have already done that, all I can say is, be prepared for a LOT of

tech

support.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no > > >>>> wrote:

Olav,

How offline are these districts? Can they not get connected through

mobile

usb modems/dongles? There is so much to gain from online deployment

that I

would check out every alternative of connectivity before deciding to go

completely offline. The mobile Internet solution is working very well

in

Kenya. With the offline data entry capabilities in the upcoming 2.4,

the

districts do not have to be online during the data entry process, which

is a

major advantage in areas with poor/unstable connectivity.

Further recommendations on deployment can be found in the

implementation

guide here:

http://dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/implementer/html/ch04.html

And a presentation on the same topic in the zip file with

implementation

guide slides here:

http://dhis2.org/download/presentations/presentations.zip

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)

HISP

Department of Informatics

University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736

Home address: Vetlandsvn. 95B, 0685 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link

On 18 August 2011 15:02, Jason Pickering jason.p.pickering@gmail.com > > >>>>> wrote:

One strong reason not to use it is the relative lack of testing. In

theory, it should work, but just as with MySQL, much more testing has

occurred with Postgres than with the other database systems.

We have some beta-level Windows installers, which might be of interest

to

you, which work pretty well under supervised circumstances. It might

be

something to consider if you want a relatively automated install of

the

DHISLive/Postgresql stack, with automated restore of the database.

Regards,

Jason

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Olav Poppe olav.poppe@gmail.com > > >>>>>> wrote:

Hello,

we’re looking at what do to with offline installations for the

implementation here in Ghana. Are there any reasons not to use DHIS

Live?

Can H2 be used (importing the metadata into an empty database), or

should

postgres be set up as well?

There are 170 districts here, and about half of them might have to be

offline installs so an easy-to-use solutions would be good.

Thanks,

Olav


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Knut Staring