[Dhis2-devs] Interesting blog post about the cost of DHIS 2

This might be pointing to a larger debate I feel:

About Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) Vs Software deployment. Enough has been said by Salesforce on pricing benefits, and is a similar argument by Google docs against Microsoft Office. That DHIS2 is not available as SaaS could be critiqued by some, but freedom is one obvious argument against SaaS.

Richard Stallman, in my opinion correctly pointed out that freedom is compromised through such SaaS - http://bostonreview.net/BR35.2/stallman.php

We should do a TCO exercise, since we are the largest implementers of DHIS2. But anyone who wants to start a SaaS with DHIS2, should be the people really doing it. That would be good exercise to determine per-user cost of providing such a service.

PS: I think this is useful to discuss on the users list, hence sending there…

···

Regards,
Saptarshi PURKAYASTHA

My Tech Blog: http://sunnytalkstech.blogspot.com
You Live by CHOICE, Not by CHANCE

On 31 May 2013 10:39, Johan Sæbø johansa@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Interesting, and we should work on the wording on our website.

However, I read his point as nothing is really free, except magpi. In his comparison with DHIS2 though, he’s comparing apples and oranges. He also fails to mention that you have to pay per reported form, and for extra functionality. Not that he doesn’t have a point about DHIS2, but he’s comparison is quite unfair.

https://datadyne.zendesk.com/entries/21093588-Cost-of-Magpi-formerly-EpiSurveyor-

Johan

On 31.05.2013 09:54, Ola Hodne Titlestad wrote:

Hi,

Here is an interesting blog post on the cost of DHIS 2, and Free and

Open Source Software in general:

http://www.datadyne.org/2013/05/global-dev-where-free-means-expensive/

Not sure where he got the idea that a national, or any, HIS

implementation can be free from, but I guess he has a point that it is

important to be clear on what part is free.

We can definitely be better at providing guidance on the

implementation costing, although I don’t think we have been trying to

hide the fact that training thousands of users can be expensive.

The freedom aspect of free software is of course not mentioned in his

blog at all…

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)

HISP

Department of Informatics

University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736

Home address: Eftasåsen 68, 0687 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link


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Yes Saptarshi I think you are right this does really touch on much bigger issues. And as Johan points out the comparison in the blog post is mostly a straw man argument.

One could quite easily set up a free (as in beer) hosting service for dhis2, with a model of providing “extras” at a cost. In fact from a business perspective its maybe not such a bad idea. I’m sure we’ll see someone doing that soon.

There are quite a few differences between the magpi cases and typical dhis2 deployments. In almost all cases (I think the Kenya MOH polio program is the exception) they refer to the system owners as international development agencies, whereas in most of our historical cases the system owners are public ministries of health. And there are qualitative and substantive differences between the custodianship requirements of handling data on behalf of your citizens and handling data for clients in a private relationship.

Free as in twitter, facebook and gmail represents a deliberately dumbed down, naive, dangerous and frankly foolish understanding of freedom and data sovereignty.

Regarding what we have on our website (which suddenly starts to look very beautiful by the way), I think it is true that we have emphasised incorrectly. The provided quote “DHIS 2 is open source software released under the BSD license and can be used at no cost.” is a case in point. Not sure why we have avoided the terminology of free software in favour of “open source” with an additional emphasis on no cost. A more accurate rephrasing would simply say “DHIS2 is free software/open source software released under the BSD license. When you download the software you are free (my emphasis) to set it up on your servers or even on somebody else’s servers. There are short and long term costs associated with the implementation, deployment and maintenance of a national health management information system. The DHIS2 software licence gives you the freedom to choose how best to balance these.”

Bob

···

On 31 May 2013 04:03, Saptarshi Purkayastha sunbiz@gmail.com wrote:

This might be pointing to a larger debate I feel:

About Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) Vs Software deployment. Enough has been said by Salesforce on pricing benefits, and is a similar argument by Google docs against Microsoft Office. That DHIS2 is not available as SaaS could be critiqued by some, but freedom is one obvious argument against SaaS.

Richard Stallman, in my opinion correctly pointed out that freedom is compromised through such SaaS - http://bostonreview.net/BR35.2/stallman.php

We should do a TCO exercise, since we are the largest implementers of DHIS2. But anyone who wants to start a SaaS with DHIS2, should be the people really doing it. That would be good exercise to determine per-user cost of providing such a service.

PS: I think this is useful to discuss on the users list, hence sending there…


Regards,
Saptarshi PURKAYASTHA

My Tech Blog: http://sunnytalkstech.blogspot.com
You Live by CHOICE, Not by CHANCE

On 31 May 2013 10:39, Johan Sæbø johansa@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Interesting, and we should work on the wording on our website.

However, I read his point as nothing is really free, except magpi. In his comparison with DHIS2 though, he’s comparing apples and oranges. He also fails to mention that you have to pay per reported form, and for extra functionality. Not that he doesn’t have a point about DHIS2, but he’s comparison is quite unfair.

https://datadyne.zendesk.com/entries/21093588-Cost-of-Magpi-formerly-EpiSurveyor-

Johan

On 31.05.2013 09:54, Ola Hodne Titlestad wrote:

Hi,

Here is an interesting blog post on the cost of DHIS 2, and Free and

Open Source Software in general:

http://www.datadyne.org/2013/05/global-dev-where-free-means-expensive/

Not sure where he got the idea that a national, or any, HIS

implementation can be free from, but I guess he has a point that it is

important to be clear on what part is free.

We can definitely be better at providing guidance on the

implementation costing, although I don’t think we have been trying to

hide the fact that training thousands of users can be expensive.

The freedom aspect of free software is of course not mentioned in his

blog at all…

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)

HISP

Department of Informatics

University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736

Home address: Eftasåsen 68, 0687 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

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Hi everybody

Yes, the debate is quite interesting but I guess it traces back to a basic divide line: information systems are not equal to information systems software. Period. It was already discussed in DHIS2 users forum. I would focus the discussion about software alternatives in terms of costs for the same functionalities. Are any candidates out there to compete with DHIS2? I doubt very much. I am new to DHIS2 but with over 30 yrs experience implementing HIS in Latin America and Africa using all sorts of databases and canned software. Mistakes in choosing the right software and associated costs can be detrimental to public health! And Bob is right about quantitative and qualitative differences in custodianship of public/NGO databases in health versus private sector.

A recent example on cost savings

illustrates my point

: first users training to upscale DHIS2 in Brazil (NGO sector) starts next Monday. Developing forms, setting up the server, getting basic reports and charts, translating the end-users manual and 80% of screens to Brazilian Portuguese took about two months for a team of three. Active and free technical support was provided by DHIS2 community. The only costs incurred were recurrent information systems costs I would have to pay anyway. But excuse me if I am missing the point of this whole debate…J

Cheers!

Marcio

···

2013/5/31 Saptarshi Purkayastha sunbiz@gmail.com

This might be pointing to a larger debate I feel:

About Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) Vs Software deployment. Enough has been said by Salesforce on pricing benefits, and is a similar argument by Google docs against Microsoft Office. That DHIS2 is not available as SaaS could be critiqued by some, but freedom is one obvious argument against SaaS.

Richard Stallman, in my opinion correctly pointed out that freedom is compromised through such SaaS - http://bostonreview.net/BR35.2/stallman.php

We should do a TCO exercise, since we are the largest implementers of DHIS2. But anyone who wants to start a SaaS with DHIS2, should be the people really doing it. That would be good exercise to determine per-user cost of providing such a service.

PS: I think this is useful to discuss on the users list, hence sending there…


Regards,
Saptarshi PURKAYASTHA

My Tech Blog: http://sunnytalkstech.blogspot.com
You Live by CHOICE, Not by CHANCE

On 31 May 2013 10:39, Johan Sæbø johansa@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Interesting, and we should work on the wording on our website.

However, I read his point as nothing is really free, except magpi. In his comparison with DHIS2 though, he’s comparing apples and oranges. He also fails to mention that you have to pay per reported form, and for extra functionality. Not that he doesn’t have a point about DHIS2, but he’s comparison is quite unfair.

https://datadyne.zendesk.com/entries/21093588-Cost-of-Magpi-formerly-EpiSurveyor-

Johan

On 31.05.2013 09:54, Ola Hodne Titlestad wrote:

Hi,

Here is an interesting blog post on the cost of DHIS 2, and Free and

Open Source Software in general:

http://www.datadyne.org/2013/05/global-dev-where-free-means-expensive/

Not sure where he got the idea that a national, or any, HIS

implementation can be free from, but I guess he has a point that it is

important to be clear on what part is free.

We can definitely be better at providing guidance on the

implementation costing, although I don’t think we have been trying to

hide the fact that training thousands of users can be expensive.

The freedom aspect of free software is of course not mentioned in his

blog at all…

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)

HISP

Department of Informatics

University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736

Home address: Eftasåsen 68, 0687 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

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Márcio Thomé

Superintendente Executivo - CONAPES
Coordenador
Departamento de Avaliação e Estatísticas
BEMFAM - Bem Estar Familiar no Brasil

Rua São Bento, 8. 6º andar. Centro.
Rio de Janeiro. 20090-010
Tel.: 55-21-38612400
Fax.: 55-21-38612469
Skype: Marcio-Deav

This discussion has prompted me to put together a blog post about the cost of free software.

I’ve been meaning to do this for some time but Joel’s rant was just so far off the mark that I felt it needed a response.

http://healthdevinfo.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-cost-of-free-software.html

Enjoy!

Kind regards,

Mark

···

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Marcio Thome mthome@bemfam.org.br wrote:

Hi everybody

Yes, the debate is quite interesting but I guess it traces back to a basic divide line: information systems are not equal to information systems software. Period. It was already discussed in DHIS2 users forum. I would focus the discussion about software alternatives in terms of costs for the same functionalities. Are any candidates out there to compete with DHIS2? I doubt very much. I am new to DHIS2 but with over 30 yrs experience implementing HIS in Latin America and Africa using all sorts of databases and canned software. Mistakes in choosing the right software and associated costs can be detrimental to public health! And Bob is right about quantitative and qualitative differences in custodianship of public/NGO databases in health versus private sector.

A recent example on cost savings

illustrates my point

: first users training to upscale DHIS2 in Brazil (NGO sector) starts next Monday. Developing forms, setting up the server, getting basic reports and charts, translating the end-users manual and 80% of screens to Brazilian Portuguese took about two months for a team of three. Active and free technical support was provided by DHIS2 community. The only costs incurred were recurrent information systems costs I would have to pay anyway. But excuse me if I am missing the point of this whole debate…J

Cheers!

Marcio


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-users

Post to : dhis2-users@lists.launchpad.net

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Mark Spohr, MD
mhspohr@gmail.com
+1 530 554 2230

2013/5/31 Saptarshi Purkayastha sunbiz@gmail.com

This might be pointing to a larger debate I feel:

About Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) Vs Software deployment. Enough has been said by Salesforce on pricing benefits, and is a similar argument by Google docs against Microsoft Office. That DHIS2 is not available as SaaS could be critiqued by some, but freedom is one obvious argument against SaaS.

Richard Stallman, in my opinion correctly pointed out that freedom is compromised through such SaaS - http://bostonreview.net/BR35.2/stallman.php

We should do a TCO exercise, since we are the largest implementers of DHIS2. But anyone who wants to start a SaaS with DHIS2, should be the people really doing it. That would be good exercise to determine per-user cost of providing such a service.

PS: I think this is useful to discuss on the users list, hence sending there…


Regards,
Saptarshi PURKAYASTHA

My Tech Blog: http://sunnytalkstech.blogspot.com
You Live by CHOICE, Not by CHANCE

On 31 May 2013 10:39, Johan Sæbø johansa@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Interesting, and we should work on the wording on our website.

However, I read his point as nothing is really free, except magpi. In his comparison with DHIS2 though, he’s comparing apples and oranges. He also fails to mention that you have to pay per reported form, and for extra functionality. Not that he doesn’t have a point about DHIS2, but he’s comparison is quite unfair.

https://datadyne.zendesk.com/entries/21093588-Cost-of-Magpi-formerly-EpiSurveyor-

Johan

On 31.05.2013 09:54, Ola Hodne Titlestad wrote:

Hi,

Here is an interesting blog post on the cost of DHIS 2, and Free and

Open Source Software in general:

http://www.datadyne.org/2013/05/global-dev-where-free-means-expensive/

Not sure where he got the idea that a national, or any, HIS

implementation can be free from, but I guess he has a point that it is

important to be clear on what part is free.

We can definitely be better at providing guidance on the

implementation costing, although I don’t think we have been trying to

hide the fact that training thousands of users can be expensive.

The freedom aspect of free software is of course not mentioned in his

blog at all…

Ola



Ola Hodne Titlestad (Mr)

HISP

Department of Informatics

University of Oslo

Mobile: +47 48069736

Home address: Eftasåsen 68, 0687 Oslo, Norway. Googlemaps link


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


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Márcio Thomé

Superintendente Executivo - CONAPES
Coordenador
Departamento de Avaliação e Estatísticas

BEMFAM - Bem Estar Familiar no Brasil

Rua São Bento, 8. 6º andar. Centro.
Rio de Janeiro. 20090-010
Tel.: 55-21-38612400
Fax.: 55-21-38612469
Skype: Marcio-Deav

Does anyone have a sense of how much roll-out of DHIS2 costs now?

Hi Jaan!

How long is a piece of string… :slight_smile:

The cost of a DHIS2 implementation is dependent on a range of factors and I am attaching a budget guide for Covid-19 as an example.

The cost of DHIS2 implementation varies according to a multitude of factors such as complexity of the implementation, no of users, whether you are doing individual level data entry at facility level, integrations with other systems etc.

Some key categories you need to budget for are:
-Technical assistance/time for design and configuration of the system
-Piloting/revisiting your configuration
-End user training (and refresher training)
-Infrastructure and airtime (and replacement cycle for devices)
-Data use training
-Hosting
-ICT support (someone to help users that are stuck)

In general, your budget considerations will change when you work with individual data = more devices, people, support needs etc.

I hope this was helpful - if there is a specific project you have in mind I am happy to discuss more.

Kind regards,
Anne (working on among other things planning & budgetting of projects at HISP UiO)
DHIS2+budget+guide+2020_Covid+vaccine.xlsx (46.4 KB)

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