DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi people,

I have initiated creation of DHIS - OpenHealth data exchange module. The initial idea is to submit to OpenMRS DHIS metadat, OpenMRS will store these data into a table, there would be facility in OpenMRS module to map DHIS data into OpenMRS data and produce export data for DHIS in XML format. The entire module will be build for OpenMRS.
Currently I have selected the following to be needed by OpenMRS to provide accurate data:
data element id
category combo id
period type
aggregation type

Any aditions suggestions are welcome. We have Paul from OpenMRS team here and he is eager to work on this approach.

Also I am planning to build some DHIS modules for Joomla CMS. Joomla is very popular open source content management system, used in many sites. Having these modules any site running on Joomla could easily fetch data from DHIS. This is very early ideas. Now we need to deside on what level to connect Joomla modules and DHIS: data base or web services (REST)?

regards,
murod

Hi

Murod will present a demo of his ideas tomorrow and we will discuss also with Paul. I think in principle it can work though there are many details to consider. One concern of mine is the need to transfer data element id and combo id. Unless these are unique identifiers this can get messy - though combo id doesn’t necessarily have a unique identifier … will see tomorrow. And of course the schema for the xml messages need to be defined. Looking forwatd to the demo.

Regards
Bob

···

2009/7/27 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi people,

I have initiated creation of DHIS - OpenHealth data exchange module. The initial idea is to submit to OpenMRS DHIS metadat, OpenMRS will store these data into a table, there would be facility in OpenMRS module to map DHIS data into OpenMRS data and produce export data for DHIS in XML format. The entire module will be build for OpenMRS.

Currently I have selected the following to be needed by OpenMRS to provide accurate data:

data element id

category combo id

period type

aggregation type

Any aditions suggestions are welcome. We have Paul from OpenMRS team here and he is eager to work on this approach.

Also I am planning to build some DHIS modules for Joomla CMS. Joomla is very popular open source content management system, used in many sites. Having these modules any site running on Joomla could easily fetch data from DHIS. This is very early ideas. Now we need to deside on what level to connect Joomla modules and DHIS: data base or web services (REST)?

regards,

murod


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Hi Murod,

Interesting!

I think we really need to work on webservices for DHIS...particularly CREATE, UPDATE and DELETE functionalities. I know Lars has done much of RETRIEVE through the expoze web service. Some of the functionalities we look to build into the mobile project will depend on these.

Best,
Ime

···

--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Murodullo Latifov <murodlatifov@yahoo.com> wrote:

That is great Murod!!

And I think the little work which I did for integrating DHIS2 and OpenMRS could be a good starting point

http://openmrs.org/wiki/Proposed_OpenMRS_DHIS2_Integration

Thank you
Abyot.

···

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com wrote:

Hi

Murod will present a demo of his ideas tomorrow and we will discuss also with Paul. I think in principle it can work though there are many details to consider. One concern of mine is the need to transfer data element id and combo id. Unless these are unique identifiers this can get messy - though combo id doesn’t necessarily have a unique identifier … will see tomorrow. And of course the schema for the xml messages need to be defined. Looking forwatd to the demo.

Regards
Bob

2009/7/27 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi people,

I have initiated creation of DHIS - OpenHealth data exchange module. The initial idea is to submit to OpenMRS DHIS metadat, OpenMRS will store these data into a table, there would be facility in OpenMRS module to map DHIS data into OpenMRS data and produce export data for DHIS in XML format. The entire module will be build for OpenMRS.

Currently I have selected the following to be needed by OpenMRS to provide accurate data:

data element id

category combo id

period type

aggregation type

Any aditions suggestions are welcome. We have Paul from OpenMRS team here and he is eager to work on this approach.

Also I am planning to build some DHIS modules for Joomla CMS. Joomla is very popular open source content management system, used in many sites. Having these modules any site running on Joomla could easily fetch data from DHIS. This is very early ideas. Now we need to deside on what level to connect Joomla modules and DHIS: data base or web services (REST)?

regards,

murod


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I am still of the opinion that its going to be pretty tough to be able to define a dataset/element id-based request from OpenMRS and getting all that EHR parts as XML.

Ideally we would need something like the Cohort builder (which I’ve been suggesting in the CHIS from day1) as the way to get the aggregated values… and then send these values to DHIS. Unless that can be done, we can always be running around how much data we want from OpenMRS for each datavalue to be generated… and as the number of dataelements increase the complexity around requesting data from OpenMRS will increase.

But mayb like Bob said, 2morrow’s discussions may give some clearer idea!!


Regards,
Saptarshi PURKAYASTHA
Director R & D, HISP India
Health Information Systems Programme

My Tech Blog: http://sunnytalkstech.blogspot.com
You Live by CHOICE, Not by CHANCE

Hi

Murod will present a demo of his ideas tomorrow and we will discuss also with Paul. I think in principle it can work though there are many details to consider. One concern of mine is the need to transfer data element id and combo id. Unless these are unique identifiers this can get messy - though combo id doesn’t necessarily have a unique identifier … will see tomorrow. And of course the schema for the xml messages need to be defined. Looking forwatd to the demo.

Regards
Bob

Hi people,

I have initiated creation of DHIS - OpenHealth data exchange module. The initial idea is to submit to OpenMRS DHIS metadat, OpenMRS will store these data into a table, there would be facility in OpenMRS module to map DHIS data into OpenMRS data and produce export data for DHIS in XML format. The entire module will be build for OpenMRS.

Currently I have selected the following to be needed by OpenMRS to provide accurate data:

data element id

category combo id

period type

aggregation type

Any aditions suggestions are welcome. We have Paul from OpenMRS team here and he is eager to work on this approach.

Also I am planning to build some DHIS modules for Joomla CMS. Joomla is very popular open source content management system, used in many sites. Having these modules any site running on Joomla could easily fetch data from DHIS. This is very early ideas. Now we need to deside on what level to connect Joomla modules and DHIS: data base or web services (REST)?

regards,

murod


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

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···

2009/7/27 Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com

2009/7/27 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Error Message Help

In an offline instance, I keep getting this error message when trying to create a new org or period chart

An exception occurred

Sorry! The system failed to execute the operation. Usually, no data is lost and you can continue working by going back to the previous page. If you wish to report the incident, please save this page by choosing “File -> Save (page as)” in your browser and include the saved page in the report. The problem details are listed below.

[+] Exception (org.hibernate.InstantiationException): Cannot instantiate abstract class or interface: org.hisp.dhis.source.Source

Thanks

Paul

hi Paul,

I don’t know if I can help you much,but two quck possible reasons:
You hibernate.properties is not set up properly, but maign be not, as you are getting this error.
Second and most possible reason is that some tables in your database does not have privileges for your user name in hibernate.properties. Make sure that all tables are being assigned to your username you used in hibernate.properties.

Hope this will help, otherwise lety us know.

Regards,
murod
P.S. I am in a location with limited internet and may reply late, sorry for this.

···

From: Paul Amendola Paul.Amendola@theirc.org
To: Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com; Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com
Cc: Jørn Braa jornbraa@gmail.com; DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:37:25 PM
Subject: Error Message Help

Error Message Help
In an offline instance, I keep getting this error message when trying to create a new org or period chart

An exception occurred

Sorry! The system failed to execute the operation. Usually, no data is lost and you can continue working by going back to the previous page. If you wish to report the incident, please save this page by choosing “File -> Save (page as)” in your browser and include the saved page in the report. The problem details are listed below.

[+] Exception (org.hibernate.InstantiationException): Cannot instantiate abstract class or interface: org.hisp.dhis.source.Source

Thanks

Paul

[+] Exception (org.hibernate.InstantiationException): Cannot instantiate
abstract class or interface: org.hisp.dhis.source.Source

Hi,

this is caused by an entry in the source table not having a matching
entry in the organisationunit table, probably because someone deleted
an orgunit without deleting the corresponding source from the
database.

Do a sql query:

delete from organisationunit where organisationunitid not in ( select
sourceid from source )

Lars

Hi,

···

Den 28. juli. 2009 kl. 14.51 skrev Saptarshi Purkayastha:

But mayb like Bob said, 2morrow's discussions may give some clearer idea!!

How did the discussions go?

Personally I cannot contribute much yet, but in a months time hopefully I will have some more time on my hands. It would be nice to try to keep the work in the open, so I, for one, can try to keep up-to-date.

Jo

Hi,

···

----- Original Message ----
From: Jo Størset <storset@gmail.com>
To: DHIS 2 developers <dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:30:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi,

Den 28. juli. 2009 kl. 14.51 skrev Saptarshi Purkayastha:

But mayb like Bob said, 2morrow's discussions may give some clearer idea!!

How did the discussions go?

Personally I cannot contribute much yet, but in a months time hopefully I will have some more time on my hands. It would be nice to try to keep the work in the open, so I, for one, can try to keep up-to-date.

Jo

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

murod

Hi,

From: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com

To: DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:30:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi,

But mayb like Bob said, 2morrow’s discussions may give some clearer idea!!

How did the discussions go?

Personally I cannot contribute much yet, but in a months time hopefully I will have some more time on my hands. It would be nice to try to keep the work in the open, so I, for one, can try to keep up-to-date.

Jo

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

Of course, using a standard (beyond just XML) for data exchange enables exchange data with many systems, not just two. See the message below on SDMX-HD

···

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com wrote:

----- Original Message ----
Den 28. juli. 2009 kl. 14.51 skrev Saptarshi Purkayastha:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Fourie carlsbox@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Subject: Re: SDMX-HD Connectathon
To: sdmx_hd@googlegroups.com

Hi Patrick,

This looks really great! Will definitely investigate the opportunity to attend. We have been working on a SDMX-HD parser for a particular project (OpenMRS and TracNET integration). Ryan Crichton has developed the beginnings (and first through) parser which is able to read an SDMX-HD message identify the indicators and dimensions as well as write to it and persist to file. We are developing this code in an effort to create a Java Library for SDMX-HD much like HL7 has the HAPI library.

I have included the following links detailing more about our work (aiming to present a beta version at OpenMRS meeting in September)

Regards,
Carl Fourie

Jembi.org

Whitaker, Patrick wrote:

Dear all,

We are planning a ‘Connectathon’ for the SDMX-HD for November. We hope that you can come. See additional details below and on the Google Group:

http://groups.google.com/group/sdmx_hd?lnk=iggc

Best regards,

Patrick

<<Connect_letter.doc>>

Patrick Whitaker
Technical Officer

Health Care Informatics Unit
Health Statistics and Informatics Department
World Health Organization

Tel. direct: +41 22 791 1372
E-mail: whitakerp@who.int

–~--~---------~–~----~------------~-------~–~----~

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “SDMX-HD (Health Domain)” group.
To post to this group, send email to sdmx_hd@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sdmx_hd+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sdmx_hd?hl=en

-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~–~—


Cheers,
Knut Staring

murod


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Cheers,
Knut Staring

Hi Knut,

I agree, only if SDMX-HD is more than just another Java Parser for XML. I am looking for code list for data elements defined in SDMX-HD. If this is place we could map DHIS data elements into it easily and be within standard definitions. Validating content under some standard is an issue, not parsing XML file for being well formed. So far I managed to get sample SDMX, which has few lines of codes only. Again, if this in place I am ready to go SDMX-HD.

regards,
murod

···

From: Knut Staring knutst@gmail.com
To: Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com
Cc: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com; DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 1:48:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com wrote:

Hi,

----- Original Message ----

From: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com

To: DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:30:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi,

Den 28. juli. 2009 kl. 14.51 skrev Saptarshi Purkayastha:

But mayb like Bob said, 2morrow’s discussions may give some clearer idea!!

How did the discussions go?

Personally I cannot contribute much yet, but in a months time hopefully I will have some more time on my hands. It would be nice to try to keep the work in the open, so I, for one, can try to keep up-to-date.

Jo

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

Of course, using a standard (beyond just XML) for data exchange enables exchange data with many systems, not just two. See the message below on SDMX-HD

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Fourie carlsbox@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Subject: Re: SDMX-HD Connectathon
To: sdmx_hd@googlegroups.com

Hi Patrick,

This looks really great! Will definitely investigate the opportunity to attend. We have been working on a SDMX-HD parser for a particular project (OpenMRS and TracNET integration). Ryan Crichton has developed the beginnings (and first through) parser which is able to read an SDMX-HD message identify the indicators and dimensions as well as write to it and persist to file. We are developing this code in an effort to create a Java Library for SDMX-HD much like HL7 has the HAPI library.

I have included the following links detailing more about our work (aiming to present a beta version at OpenMRS meeting in September)

Regards,
Carl Fourie

Jembi.org

Whitaker, Patrick wrote:

Dear all,

We are planning a ‘Connectathon’ for the SDMX-HD for November. We hope that you can come. See additional details below and on the Google Group:

http://groups.google.com/group/sdmx_hd?lnk=iggc

Best regards,

Patrick

<<Connect_letter.doc>>

Patrick Whitaker
Technical Officer

Health Care Informatics Unit
Health Statistics and Informatics Department
World Health Organization

Tel. direct: +41 22 791 1372
E-mail: whitakerp@who.int

–~--~---------~–~----~------------~-------~–~----~

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “SDMX-HD (Health Domain)” group.
To post to this group, send email to sdmx_hd@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sdmx_hd+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sdmx_hd?hl=en

-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~–~—


Cheers,
Knut Staring

murod


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


Cheers,
Knut Staring

Hi

Hi,

From: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com

To: DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:30:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi,

But mayb like Bob said, 2morrow’s discussions may give some clearer idea!!

How did the discussions go?

Personally I cannot contribute much yet, but in a months time hopefully I will have some more time on my hands. It would be nice to try to keep the work in the open, so I, for one, can try to keep up-to-date.

Jo

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

This was not really my impression. There was a breakout discussion of me, Ola, Murod and Paul (from OpenMRS). Maybe there were long debates afterwards which I missed. Anyway the prevailing view was that before we look at a new ad hoc way of doing things we need to be sure that there is not an existing standard way which is adequate. There was nobody who thought creating a new xml representation just for this openmrs-dhis integration is a good idea. Unfortunately Ola and I also had not seen Murod’s work in advance so it was difficult to present a comon dhis view. Murod can you share more of what you have done to the wider group?

In terms of discussion, the following options were considered regrading data format:

  1. SDMX_HD - Paul had not been aware of the deficiencies which I had pointed out. He was also at pains to insist that OpenMRS was not committed to this format yet, but like us, felt that it is better to align with a WHO effort if is feasible. If its not, he’s happy not to go that way. I asked him to get a second opinion on some of the concerns I had raised from the OpenMRS team.

  2. IXF - Paul said that IXFv2 did not have the problem which SDMX has - that is that new codes and codelists translate to new attributes in the data exchange schema. Given that we have both already implemented IXF parsers this might still be the basis of future interoperability. Ola mentioned that Lars had implemented IXF parser in DHIS but that he cursed it often :slight_smile: Lars you would know best whether this is a good idea or not.

  3. DXF - we didn’t discuss much. A pity, but time was short. This, or an enhanced version, will be a fallback if 1 and 2 above are not workable.

  4. Merger of 2 and 3 - this was quite an interesting thought. One of the problems with SDMX HD is that it is based on an ISO standard. Meaning that there is only a certain amount of scope to change things for the health domain - much of the rest is fixed by the ISO parent SDMX. IXF on the other hand can be taken and fixed, developed and improved by its stakeholders. It might be possible to take DXF and new ideas which have been suggested for DXF2 including elements of Murod’s schema for example and develop these as IXFv4.

Paul felt we need to create some sort of grid showing the pros and cons of these approaches and discuss on that basis. There was some possibility of making this interoperability problem a topic of the September OpenMRS implementors meeting in Cape Town.

Of course all of the above is only formats - there is more to it than that. Murod did identify the minimum information set that would need to form part of an exchange to get data from OpenMRS into DHIS. That is useful. And the idea of writing an OpenMRS module to do the job - rather than waiting for OpenMRS folk to do it - makes standards less critical, but an expensive way to consider interop in general. Though Paul had some suggestions around how the OpenMRS inference engine should be used which was a bit beyond “beginner” OpenMRS. And Saptarshi had some thoughts around using the OpenMRS cohort builder to assist with aggregation which I didn’t fully understand, but it sounded convincing :-). We are all agreed that aggregation happens on the OpenMRS side.

Its a pity we didn’t get much to web services and REST. I guess we used Murod’s work as the catalyst for discussion and ended up having lengthy debates on standard vs ad hoc xml instead.

Regards
Bob

···

2009/8/1 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

----- Original Message ----
Den 28. juli. 2009 kl. 14.51 skrev Saptarshi Purkayastha:

murod


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Hi,

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

This was not really my impression. There was a breakout discussion of me, Ola, Murod and Paul (from OpenMRS). Maybe there were long debates afterwards which I missed. Anyway the prevailing view was that before we look at a new ad hoc way of doing things we need to be sure that there is not an existing standard way which is adequate. There was nobody who thought creating a new xml representation just for this openmrs-dhis integration is a good idea. Unfortunately Ola and I also had not seen Murod’s work in advance so it was difficult to present a comon dhis view. Murod can you share more of what you have done to the wider group?

Main issue was and is to map DHIS data to OMRS data. None of listed standards currently provide it. There should be a medium to dictate standard and uniform keys, names, and other attributes for both systems, from all available standards only SDMX-HD has some sample data and is good candidate to provide such service. Parsing is not an issue, validity of content is. That is where systems talk. This standardization is multy step and long process. omrs should follow ICD10 and dhis - SDMX-HD, there should be mapping between SDMX-HD and ICD10. This is my view of standards and might not be correct. Project I created is intended to link two systems in closest possible way, not to build standards or discuss standards. Taking this into account the rest of messages from this line onward are void. When there is proper standard and implementation instructions we can easily shift.

In terms of discussion, the following options were considered regrading data format:

  1. SDMX_HD - Paul had not been aware of the deficiencies which I had pointed out. He was also at pains to insist that OpenMRS was not committed to this format yet, but like us, felt that it is better to align with a WHO effort if is feasible. If its not, he’s happy not to go that way. I asked him to get a second opinion on some of the concerns I had raised from the OpenMRS team.

  2. IXF - Paul said that IXFv2 did not have the problem which SDMX has - that is that new codes and codelists translate to new attributes in the data exchange schema. Given that we have both already implemented IXF parsers this might still be the basis of future interoperability. Ola mentioned that Lars had implemented IXF parser in DHIS but that he cursed it often :slight_smile: Lars you would know best whether this is a good idea or not.

  3. DXF - we didn’t discuss much. A pity, but time was short. This, or an enhanced version, will be a fallback if 1 and 2 above are not workable.

  4. Merger of 2 and 3 - this was quite an interesting thought. One of the problems with SDMX HD is that it is based on an ISO standard. Meaning that there is only a certain amount of scope to change things for the health domain - much of the rest is fixed by the ISO parent SDMX. IXF on the other hand can be taken and fixed, developed and improved by its stakeholders. It might be possible to take DXF and new ideas which have been suggested for DXF2 including elements of Murod’s schema for example and develop these as IXFv4.

Paul felt we need to create some sort of grid showing the pros and cons of these approaches and discuss on that basis. There was some possibility of making this interoperability problem a topic of the September OpenMRS implementors meeting in Cape Town.

Of course all of the above is only formats - there is more to it than that. Murod did identify the minimum information set that would need to form part of an exchange to get data from OpenMRS into DHIS. That is useful. And the idea of writing an OpenMRS module to do the job - rather than waiting for OpenMRS folk to do it - makes standards less critical, but an expensive way to consider interop in general. Though Paul had some suggestions around how the OpenMRS inference engine should be used which was a bit beyond “beginner” OpenMRS. And Saptarshi had some thoughts around using the OpenMRS cohort builder to assist with aggregation which I didn’t fully understand, but it sounded convincing :-). We are all agreed that aggregation happens on the OpenMRS side.

Its a pity we didn’t get much to web services and REST. I guess we used Murod’s work as the catalyst for discussion and ended up having lengthy debates on standard vs ad hoc xml instead.

Regards
Bob

···

murod


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

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Hi Murod

Do you have an example of the XML you are using? I want to see how far it might be from the DXF we are already using, should it be incorporated or what … I remember seeing a small snippet but would be good to share a file or two.

Regards
Bob

···

2009/8/3 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi,

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

This was not really my impression. There was a breakout discussion of me, Ola, Murod and Paul (from OpenMRS). Maybe there were long debates afterwards which I missed. Anyway the prevailing view was that before we look at a new ad hoc way of doing things we need to be sure that there is not an existing standard way which is adequate. There was nobody who thought creating a new xml representation just for this openmrs-dhis integration is a good idea. Unfortunately Ola and I also had not seen Murod’s work in advance so it was difficult to present a comon dhis view. Murod can you share more of what you have done to the wider group?

Main issue was and is to map DHIS data to OMRS data. None of listed standards currently provide it. There should be a medium to dictate standard and uniform keys, names, and other attributes for both systems, from all available standards only SDMX-HD has some sample data and is good candidate to provide such service. Parsing is not an issue, validity of content is. That is where systems talk. This standardization is multy step and long process. omrs should follow ICD10 and dhis - SDMX-HD, there should be mapping between SDMX-HD and ICD10. This is my view of standards and might not be correct. Project I created is intended to link two systems in closest possible way, not to build standards or discuss standards. Taking this into account the rest of messages from this line onward are void. When there is proper standard and implementation instructions we can easily shift.

In terms of discussion, the following options were considered regrading data format:

  1. SDMX_HD - Paul had not been aware of the deficiencies which I had pointed out. He was also at pains to insist that OpenMRS was not committed to this format yet, but like us, felt that it is better to align with a WHO effort if is feasible. If its not, he’s happy not to go that way. I asked him to get a second opinion on some of the concerns I had raised from the OpenMRS team.

  2. IXF - Paul said that IXFv2 did not have the problem which SDMX has - that is that new codes and codelists translate to new attributes in the data exchange schema. Given that we have both already implemented IXF parsers this might still be the basis of future interoperability. Ola mentioned that Lars had implemented IXF parser in DHIS but that he cursed it often :slight_smile: Lars you would know best whether this is a good idea or not.

  3. DXF - we didn’t discuss much. A pity, but time was short. This, or an enhanced version, will be a fallback if 1 and 2 above are not workable.

  4. Merger of 2 and 3 - this was quite an interesting thought. One of the problems with SDMX HD is that it is based on an ISO standard. Meaning that there is only a certain amount of scope to change things for the health domain - much of the rest is fixed by the ISO parent SDMX. IXF on the other hand can be taken and fixed, developed and improved by its stakeholders. It might be possible to take DXF and new ideas which have been suggested for DXF2 including elements of Murod’s schema for example and develop these as IXFv4.

Paul felt we need to create some sort of grid showing the pros and cons of these approaches and discuss on that basis. There was some possibility of making this interoperability problem a topic of the September OpenMRS implementors meeting in Cape Town.

Of course all of the above is only formats - there is more to it than that. Murod did identify the minimum information set that would need to form part of an exchange to get data from OpenMRS into DHIS. That is useful. And the idea of writing an OpenMRS module to do the job - rather than waiting for OpenMRS folk to do it - makes standards less critical, but an expensive way to consider interop in general. Though Paul had some suggestions around how the OpenMRS inference engine should be used which was a bit beyond “beginner” OpenMRS. And Saptarshi had some thoughts around using the OpenMRS cohort builder to assist with aggregation which I didn’t fully understand, but it sounded convincing :-). We are all agreed that aggregation happens on the OpenMRS side.

Its a pity we didn’t get much to web services and REST. I guess we used Murod’s work as the catalyst for discussion and ended up having lengthy debates on standard vs ad hoc xml instead.

Regards
Bob

murod


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Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

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Hi Bob,

Here is my XML file. I have ids on it, and its problematic as ids differ from implementation to implementation.

regards,
murod

de.xml (1.03 KB)

···

From: Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com
To: Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com
Cc: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com; DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 5:31:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi Murod

Do you have an example of the XML you are using? I want to see how far it might be from the DXF we are already using, should it be incorporated or what … I remember seeing a small snippet but would be good to share a file or two.

Regards
Bob

2009/8/3 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi,

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

This was not really my impression. There was a breakout discussion of me, Ola, Murod and Paul (from OpenMRS). Maybe there were long debates afterwards which I missed. Anyway the prevailing view was that before we look at a new ad hoc way of doing things we need to be sure that there is not an existing standard way which is adequate. There was nobody who thought creating a new xml representation just for this openmrs-dhis integration is a good idea. Unfortunately Ola and I also had not seen Murod’s work in advance so it was difficult to present a comon dhis view. Murod can you share more of what you have done to the wider group?

Main issue was and is to map DHIS data to OMRS data. None of listed standards currently provide it. There should be a medium to dictate standard and uniform keys, names, and other attributes for both systems, from all available standards only SDMX-HD has some sample data and is good candidate to provide such service. Parsing is not an issue, validity of content is. That is where systems talk. This standardization is multy step and long process. omrs should follow ICD10 and dhis - SDMX-HD, there should be mapping between SDMX-HD and ICD10. This is my view of standards and might not be correct. Project I created is intended to link two systems in closest possible way, not to build standards or discuss standards. Taking this into account the rest of messages from this line onward are void. When there is proper standard and implementation instructions we can easily shift.

In terms of discussion, the following options were considered regrading
data format:

  1. SDMX_HD - Paul had not been aware of the deficiencies which I had pointed out. He was also at pains to insist that OpenMRS was not committed to this format yet, but like us, felt that it is better to align with a WHO effort if is feasible. If its not, he’s happy not to go that way. I asked him to get a second opinion on some of the concerns I had raised from the OpenMRS team.

  2. IXF - Paul said that IXFv2 did not have the problem which SDMX has - that is that new codes and codelists translate to new attributes in the data exchange schema. Given that we have both already implemented IXF parsers this might still be the basis of future interoperability. Ola mentioned that Lars had implemented IXF parser in DHIS but that he cursed it often :slight_smile: Lars you would know best whether this is a good idea or not.

  3. DXF - we didn’t discuss much. A pity, but time was short. This, or an enhanced version, will be a fallback if 1 and 2 above are not workable.

  4. Merger of 2 and 3 - this was quite an interesting thought. One of the problems with SDMX HD is that it is based on an ISO standard. Meaning that there is only a certain amount of scope to change things for the health domain - much of the rest is fixed by the ISO parent SDMX. IXF on the other hand can be taken and fixed, developed and improved by its stakeholders. It might be possible to take DXF and new ideas which have been suggested for DXF2 including elements of Murod’s schema for example and develop these as IXFv4.

Paul felt we need to create some sort of grid showing the pros and cons of these approaches and discuss on that basis. There was some possibility of making this interoperability problem a topic of the September OpenMRS implementors meeting in Cape Town.

Of course all of the above is only formats - there is more to it than that. Murod did identify the minimum information set that would need to form part of an exchange to get data from OpenMRS into DHIS. That is useful. And the idea of writing an OpenMRS module to do the job - rather than waiting for OpenMRS folk to do it - makes standards less critical, but an expensive way to consider interop in general. Though Paul had some suggestions around how the OpenMRS inference engine should be used which was a bit beyond “beginner” OpenMRS. And Saptarshi had some thoughts around using the OpenMRS cohort builder to assist with aggregation which I didn’t fully understand, but it sounded convincing :-). We are all agreed that aggregation happens on the OpenMRS side.

Its a pity we didn’t get much to web services and REST. I guess we used Murod’s work as the catalyst for discussion and ended up having lengthy debates on standard vs ad hoc xml instead.

Regards
Bob

murod


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

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Thanks. It is very similar to existing dxf (which has the same problematic use of IDs). What about the data going the other way? Is it also like DXF?

Regards
Bob

···

2009/8/4 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi Bob,

Here is my XML file. I have ids on it, and its problematic as ids differ from implementation to implementation.

regards,
murod


From: Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com

To: Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com
Cc: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com; DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 5:31:29 PM

Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi Murod

Do you have an example of the XML you are using? I want to see how far it might be from the DXF we are already using, should it be incorporated or what … I remember seeing a small snippet but would be good to share a file or two.

Regards
Bob

2009/8/3 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi,

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

This was not really my impression. There was a breakout discussion of me, Ola, Murod and Paul (from OpenMRS). Maybe there were long debates afterwards which I missed. Anyway the prevailing view was that before we look at a new ad hoc way of doing things we need to be sure that there is not an existing standard way which is adequate. There was nobody who thought creating a new xml representation just for this openmrs-dhis integration is a good idea. Unfortunately Ola and I also had not seen Murod’s work in advance so it was difficult to present a comon dhis view. Murod can you share more of what you have done to the wider group?

Main issue was and is to map DHIS data to OMRS data. None of listed standards currently provide it. There should be a medium to dictate standard and uniform keys, names, and other attributes for both systems, from all available standards only SDMX-HD has some sample data and is good candidate to provide such service. Parsing is not an issue, validity of content is. That is where systems talk. This standardization is multy step and long process. omrs should follow ICD10 and dhis - SDMX-HD, there should be mapping between SDMX-HD and ICD10. This is my view of standards and might not be correct. Project I created is intended to link two systems in closest possible way, not to build standards or discuss standards. Taking this into account the rest of messages from this line onward are void. When there is proper standard and implementation instructions we can easily shift.

In terms of discussion, the following options were considered regrading data format:

  1. SDMX_HD - Paul had not been aware of the deficiencies which I had pointed out. He was also at pains to insist that OpenMRS was not committed to this format yet, but like us, felt that it is better to align with a WHO effort if is feasible. If its not, he’s happy not to go that way. I asked him to get a second opinion on some of the concerns I had raised from the OpenMRS team.

  2. IXF - Paul said that IXFv2 did not have the problem which SDMX has - that is that new codes and codelists translate to new attributes in the data exchange schema. Given that we have both already implemented IXF parsers this might still be the basis of future interoperability. Ola mentioned that Lars had implemented IXF parser in DHIS but that he cursed it often :slight_smile: Lars you would know best whether this is a good idea or not.

  3. DXF - we didn’t discuss much. A pity, but time was short. This, or an enhanced version, will be a fallback if 1 and 2 above are not workable.

  4. Merger of 2 and 3 - this was quite an interesting thought. One of the problems with SDMX HD is that it is based on an ISO standard. Meaning that there is only a certain amount of scope to change things for the health domain - much of the rest is fixed by the ISO parent SDMX. IXF on the other hand can be taken and fixed, developed and improved by its stakeholders. It might be possible to take DXF and new ideas which have been suggested for DXF2 including elements of Murod’s schema for example and develop these as IXFv4.

Paul felt we need to create some sort of grid showing the pros and cons of these approaches and discuss on that basis. There was some possibility of making this interoperability problem a topic of the September OpenMRS implementors meeting in Cape Town.

Of course all of the above is only formats - there is more to it than that. Murod did identify the minimum information set that would need to form part of an exchange to get data from OpenMRS into DHIS. That is useful. And the idea of writing an OpenMRS module to do the job - rather than waiting for OpenMRS folk to do it - makes standards less critical, but an expensive way to consider interop in general. Though Paul had some suggestions around how the OpenMRS inference engine should be used which was a bit beyond “beginner” OpenMRS. And Saptarshi had some thoughts around using the OpenMRS cohort builder to assist with aggregation which I didn’t fully understand, but it sounded convincing :-). We are all agreed that aggregation happens on the OpenMRS side.

Its a pity we didn’t get much to web services and REST. I guess we used Murod’s work as the catalyst for discussion and ended up having lengthy debates on standard vs ad hoc xml instead.

Regards
Bob

murod


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

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Hi Bob,

Output of module would be what we are using for import into DHIS now, so no need to create it in DHIS again. Yes, it would be same ids coming back with value assigned. Changing XML to look like IXF/DXF or SDMX-HD is not a big issue, we can do it in many levels before output.

regards,
murod

···

From: Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com
To: Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com
Cc: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com; DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 6:40:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Thanks. It is very similar to existing dxf (which has the same problematic use of IDs). What about the data going the other way? Is it also like DXF?

Regards
Bob

2009/8/4 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi Bob,

Here is my XML file. I have ids on it, and its problematic as ids differ from implementation to implementation.

regards,
murod


From: Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com

To: Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com
Cc: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com; DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009
5:31:29 PM

Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi Murod

Do you have an example of the XML you are using? I want to see how far it might be from the DXF we are already using, should it be incorporated or what … I remember seeing a small snippet but would be good to share a file or two.

Regards
Bob

2009/8/3 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi,

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

This was not really my impression. There was a breakout discussion of me, Ola, Murod and Paul (from OpenMRS). Maybe there were long debates afterwards which I missed. Anyway the prevailing view was that before we look at a new ad hoc way of doing things we need to be sure that there is not an existing standard way which is adequate. There was nobody who thought creating a new xml representation just for this openmrs-dhis integration is a good idea. Unfortunately Ola and I also had not seen Murod’s work in advance so it was difficult to present a comon dhis view. Murod can you share more of what you have done to the wider group?

Main issue was and is to map DHIS data to OMRS data. None of listed standards currently provide it. There should be a medium to dictate standard and uniform keys, names, and other attributes for both systems, from all available standards only SDMX-HD has some sample data and is good candidate to provide such service. Parsing is not an issue, validity of content is. That is where systems talk. This standardization is multy step and long process. omrs should follow ICD10 and dhis - SDMX-HD, there should be mapping between SDMX-HD and ICD10. This is my view of standards and might not be correct. Project I created is intended to link two systems in closest possible way, not to build standards or discuss standards. Taking this into account the rest of messages from this line onward are void. When there is proper standard and implementation instructions we can easily shift.

In terms of discussion, the following options were considered regrading
data format:

  1. SDMX_HD - Paul had not been aware of the deficiencies which I had pointed out. He was also at pains to insist that OpenMRS was not committed to this format yet, but like us, felt that it is better to align with a WHO effort if is feasible. If its not, he’s happy not to go that way. I asked him to get a second opinion on some of the concerns I had raised from the OpenMRS team.

  2. IXF - Paul said that IXFv2 did not have the problem which SDMX has - that is that new codes and codelists translate to new attributes in the data exchange schema. Given that we have both already implemented IXF parsers this might still be the basis of future interoperability. Ola mentioned that Lars had implemented IXF parser in DHIS but that he cursed it often :slight_smile: Lars you would know best whether this is a good idea or not.

  3. DXF - we didn’t discuss much. A pity, but time was short. This, or an enhanced version, will be a fallback if 1 and 2 above are not workable.

  4. Merger of 2 and 3 - this was quite an interesting thought. One of the problems with SDMX HD is that it is based on an ISO standard. Meaning that there is only a certain amount of scope to change things for the health domain - much of the rest is fixed by the ISO parent SDMX. IXF on the other hand can be taken and fixed, developed and improved by its stakeholders. It might be possible to take DXF and new ideas which have been suggested for DXF2 including elements of Murod’s schema for example and develop these as IXFv4.

Paul felt we need to create some sort of grid showing the pros and cons of these approaches and discuss on that basis. There was some possibility of making this interoperability problem a topic of the September OpenMRS implementors meeting in Cape Town.

Of course all of the above is only formats - there is more to it than that. Murod did identify the minimum information set that would need to form part of an exchange to get data from OpenMRS into DHIS. That is useful. And the idea of writing an OpenMRS module to do the job - rather than waiting for OpenMRS folk to do it - makes standards less critical, but an expensive way to consider interop in general. Though Paul had some suggestions around how the OpenMRS inference engine should be used which was a bit beyond “beginner” OpenMRS. And Saptarshi had some thoughts around using the OpenMRS cohort builder to assist with aggregation which I didn’t fully understand, but it sounded convincing :-). We are all agreed that aggregation happens on the OpenMRS side.

Its a pity we didn’t get much to web services and REST. I guess we used Murod’s work as the catalyst for discussion and ended up having lengthy debates on standard vs ad hoc xml instead.

Regards
Bob

murod


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

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Hi Bob,

Output of module would be what we are using for import into DHIS now, so no need to create it in DHIS again.

This is what is being called DXF.

Cheers

Bob

···

2009/8/4 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Yes, it would be same ids coming back with value assigned. Changing XML to look like IXF/DXF or SDMX-HD is not a big issue, we can do it in many levels before output.

regards,
murod


From: Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com

To: Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com
Cc: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com; DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 6:40:11 PM

Thanks. It is very similar to existing dxf (which has the same problematic use of IDs). What about the data going the other way? Is it also like DXF?

Regards
Bob

2009/8/4 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi Bob,

Here is my XML file. I have ids on it, and its problematic as ids differ from implementation to implementation.

regards,
murod


From: Bob Jolliffe bobjolliffe@gmail.com

To: Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com
Cc: Jo Størset storset@gmail.com; DHIS 2 developers dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 5:31:29 PM

Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] DHIS OpenMRS integration

Hi Murod

Do you have an example of the XML you are using? I want to see how far it might be from the DXF we are already using, should it be incorporated or what … I remember seeing a small snippet but would be good to share a file or two.

Regards
Bob

2009/8/3 Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com

Hi,

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

This was not really my impression. There was a breakout discussion of me, Ola, Murod and Paul (from OpenMRS). Maybe there were long debates afterwards which I missed. Anyway the prevailing view was that before we look at a new ad hoc way of doing things we need to be sure that there is not an existing standard way which is adequate. There was nobody who thought creating a new xml representation just for this openmrs-dhis integration is a good idea. Unfortunately Ola and I also had not seen Murod’s work in advance so it was difficult to present a comon dhis view. Murod can you share more of what you have done to the wider group?

Main issue was and is to map DHIS data to OMRS data. None of listed standards currently provide it. There should be a medium to dictate standard and uniform keys, names, and other attributes for both systems, from all available standards only SDMX-HD has some sample data and is good candidate to provide such service. Parsing is not an issue, validity of content is. That is where systems talk. This standardization is multy step and long process. omrs should follow ICD10 and dhis - SDMX-HD, there should be mapping between SDMX-HD and ICD10. This is my view of standards and might not be correct. Project I created is intended to link two systems in closest possible way, not to build standards or discuss standards. Taking this into account the rest of messages from this line onward are void. When there is proper standard and implementation instructions we can easily shift.

In terms of discussion, the following options were considered regrading data format:

  1. SDMX_HD - Paul had not been aware of the deficiencies which I had pointed out. He was also at pains to insist that OpenMRS was not committed to this format yet, but like us, felt that it is better to align with a WHO effort if is feasible. If its not, he’s happy not to go that way. I asked him to get a second opinion on some of the concerns I had raised from the OpenMRS team.

  2. IXF - Paul said that IXFv2 did not have the problem which SDMX has - that is that new codes and codelists translate to new attributes in the data exchange schema. Given that we have both already implemented IXF parsers this might still be the basis of future interoperability. Ola mentioned that Lars had implemented IXF parser in DHIS but that he cursed it often :slight_smile: Lars you would know best whether this is a good idea or not.

  3. DXF - we didn’t discuss much. A pity, but time was short. This, or an enhanced version, will be a fallback if 1 and 2 above are not workable.

  4. Merger of 2 and 3 - this was quite an interesting thought. One of the problems with SDMX HD is that it is based on an ISO standard. Meaning that there is only a certain amount of scope to change things for the health domain - much of the rest is fixed by the ISO parent SDMX. IXF on the other hand can be taken and fixed, developed and improved by its stakeholders. It might be possible to take DXF and new ideas which have been suggested for DXF2 including elements of Murod’s schema for example and develop these as IXFv4.

Paul felt we need to create some sort of grid showing the pros and cons of these approaches and discuss on that basis. There was some possibility of making this interoperability problem a topic of the September OpenMRS implementors meeting in Cape Town.

Of course all of the above is only formats - there is more to it than that. Murod did identify the minimum information set that would need to form part of an exchange to get data from OpenMRS into DHIS. That is useful. And the idea of writing an OpenMRS module to do the job - rather than waiting for OpenMRS folk to do it - makes standards less critical, but an expensive way to consider interop in general. Though Paul had some suggestions around how the OpenMRS inference engine should be used which was a bit beyond “beginner” OpenMRS. And Saptarshi had some thoughts around using the OpenMRS cohort builder to assist with aggregation which I didn’t fully understand, but it sounded convincing :-). We are all agreed that aggregation happens on the OpenMRS side.

Its a pity we didn’t get much to web services and REST. I guess we used Murod’s work as the catalyst for discussion and ended up having lengthy debates on standard vs ad hoc xml instead.

Regards
Bob

murod


Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

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Hi all,

I have been following all the discussions. The key issue is how to make OpenMRS and DHIS2 talk to each other. This is not about what standards should be used but THE DESIGN of AN interpreter (translator). I think we could discuss on how to design this mapping.

The key element in DHIS2 is the Dataelement and Value (often a number).

In OpenMRS, Concept is something similar to Dataelement. The answer for concept (Value) is other concept.

The Period in DHIS2 shares similarity with Encounter date time.

The Orgunit in DHIS2 is similar with Patient and location in OpenMRS.

Here are some examples of mapping:

  1. Simple mapping with only encounter

In OpenMRS, for outpatient department, every day many patients come to a clinic (hospital) to have check up.

This check up event will be stored as an encounter with date, time.

For DHIS2, one of the data element could be: “Number of patients come to the clinic this month?”

So how to map?

“select count(*) from encounter where encounter.date between FirstDateOfThisMonth and LastDateOfThisMonth”

  1. Mapping with Observation and concept

Ok, after the patient is registered, he come to see doctor in a check up room. The doctor will give diagnosis saying that he is infected by tuberculosis or malaria or any kinds of disease.

In OpenMRS, the diagnosis is stored as an observation with the Concept name is Diagnosis. The answer for this concept is also a list of concepts (ICD 10).

For DHIS2, many data element could be come from this scenario:

  • How many [TB] patient in a month?

  • How many [Malaria] patient in a month?

  • Up to some hundreds of data elements.

So how to map?

“select count(*) from obs where answer_concept is [TB] and date between FirstDateOfThisMonth and LastDateOfThisMonth”

  1. Break out by [sex] and [age]:

The query is the same but with a little modification

“select count(*) from encounter where encounter.date between FirstDateOfThisMonth and LastDateOfThisMonth”

–>

"select count(*) from encounter inner join patient on encounter.patientid = patient.id where encounter.date between FirstDateOfThisMonth and LastDateOfThisMonth AND patient.age between [startage] and [endage] and patient.sex = [sex]

  1. Other queries:

Statistical reports require more than just clinical data. This requirements range from human resources, number of medical lab machines, financial management etc.

And if there are no such things in OpenMRS, DHIS2 must pull data from other sources.

Regards,

Thanh

···

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Murodullo Latifov murodlatifov@yahoo.com wrote:

Hi,

Discussion was mainly around IXF/DXF standards for representing data, which I ignored on my initial implementation, and likely will do so for now. I am concentrated to make systems talk, after we can think of standards. This was agreement with OpenMRS people, who insisted on standards, but after long debates I made them agree to go my way. I am actually using XML for data exchange, which is standard in a sense. Will come back to discussions while progress is made.

This was not really my impression. There was a breakout discussion of me, Ola, Murod and Paul (from OpenMRS). Maybe there were long debates afterwards which I missed. Anyway the prevailing view was that before we look at a new ad hoc way of doing things we need to be sure that there is not an existing standard way which is adequate. There was nobody who thought creating a new xml representation just for this openmrs-dhis integration is a good idea. Unfortunately Ola and I also had not seen Murod’s work in advance so it was difficult to present a comon dhis view. Murod can you share more of what you have done to the wider group?

Main issue was and is to map DHIS data to OMRS data. None of listed standards currently provide it. There should be a medium to dictate standard and uniform keys, names, and other attributes for both systems, from all available standards only SDMX-HD has some sample data and is good candidate to provide such service. Parsing is not an issue, validity of content is. That is where systems talk. This standardization is multy step and long process. omrs should follow ICD10 and dhis - SDMX-HD, there should be mapping between SDMX-HD and ICD10. This is my view of standards and might not be correct. Project I created is intended to link two systems in closest possible way, not to build standards or discuss standards. Taking this into account the rest of messages from this line onward are void. When there is proper standard and implementation instructions we can easily shift.

In terms of discussion, the following options were considered regrading data format:

  1. SDMX_HD - Paul had not been aware of the deficiencies which I had pointed out. He was also at pains to insist that OpenMRS was not committed to this format yet, but like us, felt that it is better to align with a WHO effort if is feasible. If its not, he’s happy not to go that way. I asked him to get a second opinion on some of the concerns I had raised from the OpenMRS team.

  2. IXF - Paul said that IXFv2 did not have the problem which SDMX has - that is that new codes and codelists translate to new attributes in the data exchange schema. Given that we have both already implemented IXF parsers this might still be the basis of future interoperability. Ola mentioned that Lars had implemented IXF parser in DHIS but that he cursed it often :slight_smile: Lars you would know best whether this is a good idea or not.

  3. DXF - we didn’t discuss much. A pity, but time was short. This, or an enhanced version, will be a fallback if 1 and 2 above are not workable.

  4. Merger of 2 and 3 - this was quite an interesting thought. One of the problems with SDMX HD is that it is based on an ISO standard. Meaning that there is only a certain amount of scope to change things for the health domain - much of the rest is fixed by the ISO parent SDMX. IXF on the other hand can be taken and fixed, developed and improved by its stakeholders. It might be possible to take DXF and new ideas which have been suggested for DXF2 including elements of Murod’s schema for example and develop these as IXFv4.

Paul felt we need to create some sort of grid showing the pros and cons of these approaches and discuss on that basis. There was some possibility of making this interoperability problem a topic of the September OpenMRS implementors meeting in Cape Town.

Of course all of the above is only formats - there is more to it than that. Murod did identify the minimum information set that would need to form part of an exchange to get data from OpenMRS into DHIS. That is useful. And the idea of writing an OpenMRS module to do the job - rather than waiting for OpenMRS folk to do it - makes standards less critical, but an expensive way to consider interop in general. Though Paul had some suggestions around how the OpenMRS inference engine should be used which was a bit beyond “beginner” OpenMRS. And Saptarshi had some thoughts around using the OpenMRS cohort builder to assist with aggregation which I didn’t fully understand, but it sounded convincing :-). We are all agreed that aggregation happens on the OpenMRS side.

Its a pity we didn’t get much to web services and REST. I guess we used Murod’s work as the catalyst for discussion and ended up having lengthy debates on standard vs ad hoc xml instead.

Regards
Bob

murod


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Best regards,
Thanh


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