Child Health Record - ideas in Viet Nam

Support - Assistance technique
1

Dear all,

We’re going to build Child Health Record based on DHIS. I send the document to represent our ideas about the module.

Please enclose the attached file and give us suggestion about the system.

According to our ideas, we try to create a form from system, but we can’t share data. Now we’re researching how to solve this big program.

CHR-document.doc (536 KB)

···

Chau Thu Tran

2

Hi,

thanks for sharing this information.

Just a comment: It would be useful if you could write down a

  • formal requirement specification (regarding what the system is intended to do)

  • propose an object model (don’t think about tables, but objects)

Thanks.

regards, Lars

···

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Chau Thu Tran tran.hispvietnam@gmail.com wrote:

Dear all,

We’re going to build Child Health Record based on DHIS. I send the document to represent our ideas about the module.

Please enclose the attached file and give us suggestion about the system.

According to our ideas, we try to create a form from system, but we can’t share data. Now we’re researching how to solve this big program.

Chau Thu Tran

Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

3

Dear All,

We’re building the Analysis and Design document about the system. According to our plan, we’ll finish the document on next weekend. We’ll send it to you as soon as possible.

Thank,

Regards,

Chau Thu Tran

···

2009/5/14 Lars Helge Øverland larshelge@gmail.com

Hi,

thanks for sharing this information.

Just a comment: It would be useful if you could write down a

  • formal requirement specification (regarding what the system is intended to do)

  • propose an object model (don’t think about tables, but objects)

Thanks.

regards, Lars

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Chau Thu Tran tran.hispvietnam@gmail.com wrote:

Dear all,

We’re going to build Child Health Record based on DHIS. I send the document to represent our ideas about the module.

Please enclose the attached file and give us suggestion about the system.

According to our ideas, we try to create a form from system, but we can’t share data. Now we’re researching how to solve this big program.

Chau Thu Tran

Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs

More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

4

Greetings !!

Was expecting for your comments but didn’t get any. Anyways I assume that you all have agreed to some extent… and now I am into the coding, please join me in that.

Thank you.
Abyot.

CBHS Design Specification.pdf (54.3 KB)

···

2009/5/20 Abyot Gizaw abyota@gmail.com

Hi All,

Please find the attached very much simplified design specification for the CBHS. Hope to get your comments so that we go into the coding business.

Thanks.
Abyot

2009/5/20 Abyot Gizaw abyota@gmail.com

Ahh… I just got the summary of the discussion you made in the conference call.

And here is my feeling. Honestly I don’t see these technologies/frameworks/choices really relevant at least to start with (though being future-proof is fine), because if we continue to do this we will never agree on anything and finally reach august with nothing. I mean, better if we could stick to “keep it simple” phiolosohy and reach on something with the frameworks and technologies we are currently using - “known devil is better than unknown angel”.

For me, what will be interesting at this stage is to throw as many inputs as possible all focused on the requirements and functionalities of the system we are trying to comeup with - India needs it, Vietnam needs it, Tanzania, Malawi and also Ethiopia.

From my side: the requirement is to have a system capable of registering visits for specific programs (FP, ANC and Immunization at least to start with). And below is a little break-up of this.

  1.   **Individual/Patient Management Module** –the requirement here is to systematically manage (as well as track) individuals. Very much similar to orgunit hierarchy operation and module in DHIS2.

· Village(name, house(s), ANM(s), …)

o Add/Edit/Remove

· House(houseno, family, ?gpslocation?,…)

o Add/edit/Remove

· Family(house,husband,wife,son(s), daughter(s),…)

o Add/Edit/Remove/move-around

· Individual(name,house,…)

o Add/Edit/Remove/move-around

**2. ** Health Program Management – This is something (I would say) similar to advanced dataset management. This module is to enable users manage programs (for e.g. Family Planning, ANC, Immunization, Line-List of Birth, Line-List of Death, …)

· Program(name, frequency, program_phase(s),…)

o Add/Edit/Remove

· Program_phase(name, frequency, register, individuals_in_the_program, …)

o Add/Edit/Remove/link_with_register

**3. ** Register Management – Probably this is the most complicated part of the system. And I would be happy if Saptarshi can pull something from OpenMRS especially from the XML_Reporting module. Because there things are saved in plain XML raw data – which I think is quite ok because there will be a wide range of objects to be part of a register (Individual, dataelement,period,house,date, orgunit,….)

· Functionalities expected from this module

o Add/Edit/Remove register

o Assign objects to register

§ objectes could be – dataelement, individual, house, village, period, date,…

o Arrange objects or create a register form

§ Depending on the type of objects assigned to the register a form need to be designed using different dataentry boxes (boolean, calendar, text/integer box, drop_down, hierarchy browsing, …

**4. ** Activity Plan Generator

· Cross-check services/programs provided and forecast the next program_phase – activity plan. The forecast is expected to have

o A list of tasks detailing what_service_to_provide(which phase, register_related_information, for_whom(individual), where_to_go (village, house_no)

**5. ** Aggregation Module

· As much as possible a ?free_text? (combinations of objects/drop_downs/,…) query engine. Again there is a lot to take from OpenMRS cohort manager.

· Queries should be mapped to existing objects (or their combinations) and saved for later use.

Can the Vietnam, Tanzania and Malawi team comment of this and also provide their own requirement?

Thank you
Abyot.

2009/5/20 Saptarshi Purkayastha sunbiz@gmail.com

Hi Abyot,

Great to have you back! I just reached Delhi today from Kerala after starting the mobile pilot in that state.

We had a conference call on the discussions on how to move forward with CBHS.
I suggested that we use the whole JavaEE 6 stack (JPA, Servlet 3.0, EJB 3.1, JSF 2.0 – the web profile) for the CBHS and if everyone likes it working, we can then port parts of DHIS2 to use the same architecture and frameworks. It makes us future-proof to some extent…

What do you feel about JavaEE 6??
One simplistic example: http://www.antoniogoncalves.org/xwiki/bin/view/Jolorun/JavaEE6

Architecture for writing JavaEE 6 Apps: http://www.antoniogoncalves.org/xwiki/bin/view/Jolorun/Architecture

Regards,
Saptarshi PURKAYASTHA
Director R & D, HISP India
Health Information Systems Programme

My Tech Blog: http://sunnytalkstech.blogspot.com

You Live by CHOICE, Not by CHANCE

2009/5/19 Abyot Gizaw abyota@gmail.com

Hi All,

I am now back to action fresh and full of energy!

It is true that we need to synchronize our effrots and come up with something working that benefits the whole HISP network. But at the same time we need to be carefuel not to swamp ourselves with too many design ponders - I like Arthur’s “Keep It Simple Stupid” phiolosohpy. Anyways it would be great, as Lars asked, if we could get a more formal and detailed description of the system “Child Health Record”. And just a question how different/similar is it from the system Thanh is running/developing/talking? and if it is sort of recording then I would say OpenMRS will be a good candidate.

Sort of crazy idea I have is, two broad classification of health information systems - one focusing on curative and the other one on preventive. The community based system we plan is in the category of preventive and hence issues of planning, scheduling, alerting and outreaching are very much critical. And this category is perfectly inline to the philosophy of DHIS2/HISP. In the other category, curative systems, the focus is on the history of a patient(child, mother, …) and hence stroage, retrival, and the like are the main issues. so my question is therefore … are we mixing the two? if so how? and also ask our Vietnam team to comment on this.

Saptarshi… is there anything you would like to share/update me regarding the community system?

Thanks
Abyot

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad olati@ifi.uio.no wrote:

Hi,

Saptarshi and Abyot:
These Vietnamese requirements (attached .doc) to a patient-level child health system fits well with the community household based system (CHBS) you are working on.

As Jørn mentioned in a previous mail related to design discussion on the new community system it is important that we think broader than the requirements in India, but also include these requirements in Vietnam, and also the quite similar requirements of a planned maternal health system in Tanzania and Malawi.

Lars already requested more details from Vietnam on the actual user requirements for the child health system so hopefully we can all receive that shortly. I will also push Caroline and Marlene from TZ and Malawi to write up requirements for their planned maternal health system.

There is a trend all around the HISP network towards electronic capturing of patient or case (vital events, notifiable diseases etc.) based information in relation to DHIS implementations, and we need to target this with a broad enough approach so that the new CHBS (that is the name used in India) can benefit the whole HISP network. Concetually I see this as a web based version of the DHIS 1.4 patient module, but somehow extended to include tracking of patients. Still following a simplistic approach and not intending to become a fully fledged electronic record system (like OpenMRS, Care2X etc.)

To me it seems as all these proposed systems build around the same core functionality; to be able to define, capture and store patient/case/household-level data in DHIS, to track patients across cases/events, and to relate the patient data to routine (aggregated) data through user-defined expressions.

Ms. Tran,
As you see there is ongoing work in HISP (especially in India) to develop a similar system to what you are proposing so you should try to get involved in the ongoing discussion and work being done on this. Saptarshi and Abyot (e-mail addresses included in this mail) are driving this process.

best regards,
Ola Hodne Titlestad
HISP
University of Oslo

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cong Duong Dinh duong_dinhcong@hotmail.com

Date: Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:55 AM
Subject: FW: Child Health Record - ideas in Viet Nam
To: Arthur HEYWOOD arthur@hisp.org, catakim@gmail.com, Jorn Braa jbraa@ifi.uio.no, Jørn Braa jornbraa@gmail.com, knutst@gmail.com, Knut Staring knutst@ifi.uio.no, Ola Hodne Titlestad olatitle@gmail.com, Ola olati@ifi.uio.no, Suddeps Sed sundeeps@ifi.uio.no, Sundeep sundeep.sahay@yahoo.com

Dear all specialists,

I manage Tran work, I can not comment her ideas,
Thanh said that it’s impossible, because he did work longtime on it. But I doubt about this idea. We had DHIS2.0 not DHIS1.0.
Sop we decide let Tran work for this for some months and see what happens.

Tran prepare well her protocol, so I really hope you can give us some comments.
Tran said that DHIS2.0 is a very good, strong base to built this up.
What do you think…

Thanh said that, now Oslo just had a new policy for DHIS?

I hope I can receive from you, that will help me to manage the team here.

Thanh said that now we have to ask Tran work for DHIS, I can not do that because I have to help Mother and Child Health Centre and me and Jorn did agree that with Giang - Director of Health Service.

Yesterday Chinh met us and ask us again about this issue, I had 13.000.000 VND # 7.000 USD for this work, but the output should be sure, because he can not use that money for resaerch.

So please give Tran some comments and good support for her work.

Please help

Cong

Duong Dinh Cong CUF/UTC 520 Ng Tri Phuong QX HCM-City Vietnam Tel 84 8 8631383 Fax 84 8 650025

Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:25:10 +0700
Subject: Child Health Record - ideas in Viet Nam
From: tran.hispvietnam@gmail.com
To: dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net

CC: duong_dinhcong@hotmail.com; trung.hispvietnam@gmail.com; tranthanhtri84@gmail.com; sam.hispvietnam@gmail.com; thuy.hispvietnam@gmail.com; hieu.hispvietnam@gmail.com; tran.hispvietnam@gmail.com

Dear all,

We’re going to build Child Health Record based on DHIS. I send the document to represent our ideas about the module.

Please enclose the attached file and give us suggestion about the system.

According to our ideas, we try to create a form from system, but we can’t share data. Now we’re researching how to solve this big program.

Chau Thu Tran

Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It’s easy! Try it!

5

Dear all,

I send the document to represent requirements of CHR and our ideas to
build the system.

Please enclose the attached file and give us suggestion about the system.

Chau Thu Tran

Requirement Spec analysis.pdf (2.5 MB)

···

On 5/25/09, Abyot Gizaw <abyota@gmail.com> wrote:

Greetings !!

Was expecting for your comments but didn't get any. Anyways I assume that
you all have agreed to some extent.... and now I am into the coding, please
join me in that.

Thank you.
Abyot.

2009/5/20 Abyot Gizaw <abyota@gmail.com>

Hi All,

Please find the attached very much simplified design specification for the
CBHS. Hope to get your comments so that we go into the coding business.

Thanks.
Abyot

2009/5/20 Abyot Gizaw <abyota@gmail.com>

Ahh... I just got the summary of the discussion you made in the conference

call.

And here is my feeling. Honestly I don't see these
technologies/frameworks/choices really relevant at least to start with
(though being future-proof is fine), because if we continue to do this we
will never agree on anything and finally reach august with nothing. I
mean,
better if we could stick to "keep it simple" phiolosohy and reach on
something with the frameworks and technologies we are currently using -
"known devil is better than unknown angel".

For me, what will be interesting at this stage is to throw as many inputs
as possible all focused on the requirements and functionalities of the
system we are trying to comeup with - India needs it, Vietnam needs it,
Tanzania, Malawi and also Ethiopia.

From my side: the requirement is to have a system capable of registering
visits for specific programs (FP, ANC and Immunization at least to start
with). And below is a little break-up of this.

1. *Individual/Patient Management Module *–the requirement here is
to systematically manage (as well as track) individuals. Very much
similar
to orgunit hierarchy operation and module in DHIS2.

· Village(name, house(s), ANM(s), …)

o Add/Edit/Remove

· House(houseno, family, ?gpslocation?,…)

o Add/edit/Remove

· Family(house,husband,wife,son(s), daughter(s),..)

o Add/Edit/Remove/move-around

· Individual(name,house,…)

o Add/Edit/Remove/move-around

*2. **Health Program Management – *This is something (I would say)
similar to advanced dataset management. This module is to enable users
manage programs (for e.g. Family Planning, ANC, Immunization, Line-List
of
Birth, Line-List of Death, …)

· Program(name, frequency, program_phase(s),…)

o Add/Edit/Remove

· Program_phase(name, frequency, register,
individuals_in_the_program, …)

o Add/Edit/Remove/link_with_register

*3. **Register Management – *Probably this is the most complicated
part of the system. And I would be happy if Saptarshi can pull something
from OpenMRS especially from the XML_Reporting module. Because there
things
are saved in plain XML raw data – which I think is quite ok because there
will be a wide range of objects to be part of a register (Individual,
dataelement,period,house,date, orgunit,….)

· Functionalities expected from this module

o Add/Edit/Remove register

o Assign objects to register

§ objectes could be – dataelement, individual, house, village, period,
date,…

o Arrange objects or create a register form

§ Depending on the type of objects assigned to the register a form need
to be designed using different dataentry boxes (boolean, calendar,
text/integer box, drop_down, hierarchy browsing, …

*4. **Activity Plan Generator*

· Cross-check services/programs provided and forecast the next
program_phase – activity plan. The forecast is expected to have

o A list of tasks detailing what_service_to_provide(which phase,
register_related_information, for_whom(individual), where_to_go (village,
house_no)

*5. **Aggregation Module*

· As much as possible a ?free_text? (combinations of
objects/drop_downs/,…) query engine. Again there is a lot to take from
OpenMRS cohort manager.

· Queries should be mapped to existing objects (or their
combinations) and saved for later use.

Can the Vietnam, Tanzania and Malawi team comment of this and also
provide
their own requirement?

Thank you
Abyot.

2009/5/20 Saptarshi Purkayastha <sunbiz@gmail.com>

Hi Abyot,

Great to have you back! I just reached Delhi today from Kerala after
starting the mobile pilot in that state.
We had a conference call on the discussions on how to move forward with
CBHS.
I suggested that we use the whole JavaEE 6 stack (JPA, Servlet 3.0, EJB
3.1, JSF 2.0 -- the web profile) for the CBHS and if everyone likes it
working, we can then port parts of DHIS2 to use the same architecture
and
frameworks. It makes us future-proof to some extent...

What do you feel about JavaEE 6??
One simplistic example:
http://www.antoniogoncalves.org/xwiki/bin/view/Jolorun/JavaEE6
Architecture for writing JavaEE 6 Apps:
http://www.antoniogoncalves.org/xwiki/bin/view/Jolorun/Architecture

---
Regards,
Saptarshi PURKAYASTHA
Director R & D, HISP India
Health Information Systems Programme

My Tech Blog: http://sunnytalkstech.blogspot.com
You Live by CHOICE, Not by CHANCE

2009/5/19 Abyot Gizaw <abyota@gmail.com>

Hi All,

I am now back to action fresh and full of energy!

It is true that we need to synchronize our effrots and come up with
something working that benefits the whole HISP network. But at the same
time
we need to be carefuel not to swamp ourselves with too many design
ponders -
I like Arthur's "Keep It Simple Stupid" phiolosohpy. Anyways it would
be
great, as Lars asked, if we could get a more formal and detailed
description
of the system "Child Health Record". And just a question how
different/similar is it from the system Thanh is
running/developing/talking?
and if it is sort of recording then I would say OpenMRS will be a good
candidate.

Sort of crazy idea I have is, two broad classification of health
information systems - one focusing on curative and the other one on
preventive. The community based system we plan is in the category of
preventive and hence issues of planning, scheduling, alerting and
outreaching are very much critical. And this category is perfectly
inline to
the philosophy of DHIS2/HISP. In the other category, curative systems,
the
focus is on the history of a patient(child, mother, ...) and hence
stroage,
retrival, and the like are the main issues. so my question is therefore
....
are we mixing the two? if so how? and also ask our Vietnam team to
comment
on this.

Saptarshi.... is there anything you would like to share/update me
regarding the community system?

Thanks
Abyot

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad <olati@ifi.uio.no >>>>> > wrote:

Hi,

Saptarshi and Abyot:
These Vietnamese requirements (attached .doc) to a patient-level child
health system fits well with the community household based system
(CHBS) you
are working on.
As Jørn mentioned in a previous mail related to design discussion on
the new community system it is important that we think broader than
the
requirements in India, but also include these requirements in Vietnam,
and
also the quite similar requirements of a planned maternal health
system in
Tanzania and Malawi.

Lars already requested more details from Vietnam on the actual user
requirements for the child health system so hopefully we can all
receive
that shortly. I will also push Caroline and Marlene from TZ and Malawi
to
write up requirements for their planned maternal health system.

There is a trend all around the HISP network towards electronic
capturing of patient or case (vital events, notifiable diseases etc.)
based
information in relation to DHIS implementations, and we need to target
this
with a broad enough approach so that the new CHBS (that is the name
used in
India) can benefit the whole HISP network. Concetually I see this as a
web
based version of the DHIS 1.4 patient module, but somehow extended to
include tracking of patients. Still following a simplistic approach
and not
intending to become a fully fledged electronic record system (like
OpenMRS,
Care2X etc.)

To me it seems as all these proposed systems build around the same
core
functionality; to be able to define, capture and store
patient/case/household-level data in DHIS, to track patients across
cases/events, and to relate the patient data to routine (aggregated)
data
through user-defined expressions.

Ms. Tran,
As you see there is ongoing work in HISP (especially in India) to
develop a similar system to what you are proposing so you should try
to get
involved in the ongoing discussion and work being done on this.
Saptarshi
and Abyot (e-mail addresses included in this mail) are driving this
process.

best regards,
Ola Hodne Titlestad
HISP
University of Oslo

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cong Duong Dinh <duong_dinhcong@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:55 AM
Subject: FW: Child Health Record - ideas in Viet Nam
To: Arthur HEYWOOD <arthur@hisp.org>, catakim@gmail.com, Jorn Braa <
jbraa@ifi.uio.no>, Jørn Braa <jornbraa@gmail.com>, knutst@gmail.com,
Knut Staring <knutst@ifi.uio.no>, Ola Hodne Titlestad <
olatitle@gmail.com>, Ola <olati@ifi.uio.no>, Suddeps Sed <
sundeeps@ifi.uio.no>, Sundeep <sundeep.sahay@yahoo.com>

Dear all specialists,

I manage Tran work, I can not comment her ideas,
Thanh said that it's impossible, because he did work longtime on it.
But I doubt about this idea. We had DHIS2.0 not DHIS1.0.
Sop we decide let Tran work for this for some months and see what
happens.

Tran prepare well her protocol, so I really hope you can give us some
comments.
Tran said that DHIS2.0 is a very good, strong base to built this up.
What do you think..

Thanh said that, now Oslo just had a new policy for DHIS?
I hope I can receive from you, that will help me to manage the team
here.

Thanh said that now we have to ask Tran work for DHIS, I can not do
that because I have to help Mother and Child Health Centre and me and
Jorn
did agree that with Giang - Director of Health Service.

Yesterday Chinh met us and ask us again about this issue, I had
13.000.000 VND # 7.000 USD for this work, but the output should be
sure,
because he can not use that money for resaerch.

So please give Tran some comments and good support for her work.

Please help

Cong

Duong Dinh Cong CUF/UTC 520 Ng Tri Phuong QX HCM-City Vietnam Tel 84 8
8631383 Fax 84 8 650025

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:25:10 +0700
Subject: Child Health Record - ideas in Viet Nam
From: tran.hispvietnam@gmail.com
To: dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net
CC: duong_dinhcong@hotmail.com; trung.hispvietnam@gmail.com;
tranthanhtri84@gmail.com; sam.hispvietnam@gmail.com;
thuy.hispvietnam@gmail.com; hieu.hispvietnam@gmail.com;
tran.hispvietnam@gmail.com

Dear all,

We're going to build Child Health Record based on DHIS. I send the
document to represent our ideas about the module.

Please enclose the attached file and give us suggestion about the
system.

According to our ideas, we try to create a form from system, but we
can't share data. Now we're researching how to solve this big
program.

----

Chau Thu Tran

------------------------------
Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
Spaces. It's easy! Try
it!<http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us&gt;